14-Year Old Venerable Siemens ChargePoint finally bit dust - replace or repair?

[Panzer948]

Just a quick background on why I say "venerable/classic". I was an early adopter of the 1211 Chevy Volt. I was actually on a year long waiting list before receiving it in April 2011. At that time, utility companies didn't know what to do with all the EV tech coming out and some started pilot programs where they would install a charger for free as long as you allowed them to remotely monitor daily usage (note the little antenna on the right top corner of my unit below). When I heard Duke Energy was rolling this out in the Charlotte, NC area, I was literally the first to sign up for it while awaiting my Volt to be built. Back then the Tesla Roadster was just starting to be talked about. The only other EV even coming out was the Nissan Leaf, thus since no one in late 2010 had an EV yet. Thus, on the day of the install, Duke sent their marketing team and the local news to oversee the installation and do interviews. Anyway, long story short they installed a very nice Siemens ChargePoint 8EM1111 for free.

I have been told that they don't build them as robust as this anymore. I have no idea of that is really true but I did have to get something fixed a few years back, so it has not been perfect. I am not looking for anything fast as we simply rely on this to charge overnight, which I know is on the low end for a Level II at 7 kw/hr. Anyway, what is the general take on these older charger units? Did they over engineer them or has tech superseded them enough to warrant a new model; basically get it fixed or simply replace? Another option is to have an electrician replace this with a 220 outlet (this one is hardwired from the mounting point to the fuse box) and simply use the Ford Charger with 220 plug.

If anyone has any recommendations I would greatly appreciate and look into any ideas deeper!

Thanks,

Bryan

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[shelnian]

This guy is the expert on chargers https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdX0BJNon1c6GfOdeS3pyDw

 

[Mach-Lee]

I would get a newer supported model. See if your utility offers any with a time of use program. The newer ChargePoints work mostly fine.

 

[RickMachE]

I can't imagine that the cost to repair would make any sense.

I'd buy another hardwired charger. You need to see what breaker you have, and what gauge wire, to see if you can go above the 30amps of your current setup.

You may find that your utility offers discounted chargers, or provides a rebate for certain makes/models.

 

[Panzer948]

I can't imagine that the cost to repair would make any sense.

I'd buy another hardwired charger. You need to see what breaker you have, and what gauge wire, to see if you can go above the 30amps of your current setup.

You may find that your utility offers discounted chargers, or provides a rebate for certain makes/models.

Great advice, I will check into this for sure.

Yeah, if it was somehow hardwired to support more than 30 amps it would open up better possibilities.

 

[Tosh]

I got a Ford charger (plus installation) included with my 2024 Rally. The electrician swapped out a pair of 15 amp breakers for a pair of 30 amp, and viola - 48 amp L2 charger (@ no charge!)

meaning it should be easy to get a new charger, running at higher current, assuming your main panel isn't already maxed out

 

[fkyct]

I got a Ford charger (plus installation) included with my 2024 Rally. [b{The electrician swapped out a pair of 15 amp breakers for a pair of 30 amp, and viola - 48 amp L2 charger (@ no charge!)[/b]

meaning it should be easy to get a new charger, running at higher current, assuming your main panel isn't already maxed out

Huh? Can you explain what was done? I can’t see how a pair of 30 amps breakers can feed a 48 amp L2 EVSE.

To supply 48 amps to the EV would require upgrade in wiring and at least a 60 amp double pole breaker.

 

[Tosh]

the pair of 30 amp breakers, in tandem, created a 60 amp circuit. The wire gauge did not need to be upgraded (the house is only 5 years old)

 

[Panzer948]

the pair of 30 amp breakers, in tandem, created a 60 amp circuit. The wire gauge did not need to be upgraded (the house is only 5 years old)

Interesting, new to this so still learning.

Curious what kind of chargers some of you are now using with these setups? Any good recommendations? I bet some of them have handy apps that track usage better than say the Ford App.

Related to the above, I have checked my utility company and they do have a discount program where they will also help select a certified contractor. So in the end, I may go that route as it saves me the trouble of tracking down a good electrician while hopefully providing some kind of discount.

 

[fkyct]

the pair of 30 amp breakers, in tandem, created a 60 amp circuit. The wire gauge did not need to be upgraded (the house is only 5 years old)

Bruce,

I still don't understand. Going from a 15 amp circuit to a 60 amp circuit that supplies 48 amps continuous, without needing to upgrade wire gauge, has me confused.

Plus I would love to see a picture of what you call "30 amp breakers, in tandem". That would help me to better understand what your electrician did to convent a 15 amp circuit to supply a 48 amp L2 charger, at 48 amps continuous. A tandem breaker is 2 breakers that only takes up 1 slot. It provides the same phase 120 vac to 2 circuits. It doesn't double the current capability or double the voltage.

Wire that will handle 15 amps is normally 12 gauge. Wire that can handle 60 amps is at least 6 gauge. Re-Purposing a 15 amp circuit to supply a 48 amp L2 has me confused.

Plus a 60 amp 240 volt circuit requires a 60 amp double pole breaker.

Here is a picture of a 30 amp tandem breaker that supplies 120 volts at 30 amps to 2 circuits and a picture of a 60 amp double pole breaker that can supply 60 amps @240 volts for a 48 amp L2 charger.

 

[HuntingPudel]

the pair of 30 amp breakers, in tandem, created a 60 amp circuit. The wire gauge did not need to be upgraded (the house is only 5 years old)

If all the electrician did was swap out the breakers from 15A to 30A, you have a fire hazard waiting to blow up on you. Most contractors will use the minimum size wire for a planned circuit. That would be 14AWG THHN wire for the 15A circuits. A 30A circuit requires a minimum of 10AWG THHN, whereupon you can safely pull 24A on a long-term consistent basis. Additionally, two 30A single pole breakers on two live opposing live circuits (as opposed to a 120V live circuit referenced to Neutral) will supply 240V at a maximum of 30A. I'm not reading that your electrician did your installation cleanly. Take a look at the wires. If you are indeed using the EVSE on 240V at 48A, you need a tandem 60A breaker with a minimum of 6AWG wire, hard-wired to the EVSE. ??

 

[NorthlandPhil]

I have a Charge Point Home Flex I bought last November. Runs at 40A (50A breaker). Works great. But then, I don't do anything with it other than just plug my car in. I do scheduling with the car, and I have an Emporia Energy Monitor where I track my power usage.

If you email their support, you might be able to get a 10% discount.
https://store.chargepoint.com/product/home-flex-hardwired

Check with your power company. They might have a rebate program. Also, there might be a federal tax credit you can claim.

Hardwiring is generally recommended over plug in. For one thing, if your location requires ground fault protection, that could interfere with the ground protection built into the charger. But you probably know more about that than I do. I'm a relative newbie to EV. I didn't have the guts to do this until it was pretty well established.

You should mount your venerable and classic charger someplace in the garage just for the "trophy" value it has.

 

[Maquis]

the pair of 30 amp breakers, in tandem, created a 60 amp circuit. The wire gauge did not need to be upgraded (the house is only 5 years old)

That’s not how it works.

 

[stoopid]

If anyone has any recommendations I would greatly appreciate and look into any ideas deeper!

I using the free-with-my-MME Ford charger. In searching for a new (EV) car late 2024/early 2025, I did some scant preliminary research, including perhaps too much Youtube ingestion, and the conclusion was that most modern units are of about the same quality due to the function they perform. The individual makers and models seem to mostly vary on integration abilities, so decide if you need the wall unit to speak to the rest of the world and why. Once that's determined, I'd just get the cheapest 'well received/reviewed' model available that fits your needs. Most other info I've found has been largely anecdotal since the sample size (total number of EV owners, let alone Level 2 home users) to be smallish and the tech new enough we're still fleshing things out. As an industry, EVs are just exiting 'early adopter' phase in comparison to other electronics and/or home power related solutions.

You'll need to use an adapter, but getting a NACS charger will futureproof you since everyone is pivoting to that standard moving forward.

 

[Tosh]

If all the electrician did was swap out the breakers from 15A to 30A, you have a fire hazard waiting to blow up on you. Most contractors will use the minimum size wire for a planned circuit. That would be 14AWG THHN wire for the 15A circuits. A 30A circuit requires a minimum of 10AWG THHN, whereupon you can safely pull 24A on a long-term consistent basis. Additionally, two 30A single pole breakers on two live opposing live circuits (as opposed to a 120V live circuit referenced to Neutral) will supply 240V at a maximum of 30A. I'm not reading that your electrician did your installation cleanly. Take a look at the wires. If you are indeed using the EVSE on 240V at 48A, you need a tandem 60A breaker with a minimum of 6AWG wire, hard-wired to the EVSE. ??

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology ....

The "pair of 30 amp breakers" was replaced with a dual (tandem?) breaker identified as 60 amps. The circuits that were on those 2 30 amp breakers were re-allocated to some twin (dual/) breakers, without having to replace any wiring in the panel. The EVSE is hardwired to the panel using the heavy gauge cabling that it shipped with (not sure what the actual gauge is, but I expect it to be able to handle 100 amps, since the charger can be set to output 80 amps). The run is less than 6 ft total, and it was installed by the Q-Merit contractor. I'm confident that it's not going to overheat and start a fire ;-}

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