Recall #25S65 - 12V battery discharge may cause door lock-out (Vehicle Entrapment Allegations). Stop Sales issued by Ford

[Mike G]

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[Mike G]

I am curious, what is the source reference to 8.4v? I don’t see that referred to in the notice on FordPass, Ford.com, or the NHTSA lookup page. (Although that doesn’t mean it’s not there; it may be simply I didn’t see it.)

“In all of the affected vehicles, in the event of unexpected 12V battery discharge below 8.4V at key-off, the front door electronic latches retain their last lock/unlock status.”

 

[BMT1071]

It also likely depends on the seriousness of the heat of summer depending on where you live. Sure, living in San Francisco in the summer buys you a whole lot more time than someone who lives in Phoenix, or even where I am where we routinely see days of 110+ F in the summer. I've seen 120 F on my porch!

Yes, if its 62 F out and my kid is stuck in the backseat, I'm concerned but if its 120 F its a life or death scenario. If you live in San Francisco and...take a road trip to Death Valley or even Sacramento, this is suddenly also a concern for you!

Add in complications of how rural or urban you are, it could mean your minutes of reaching help are drastically reduced too. I personally living in a pretty rural area, police are near but nothing like a major city so, yeah, I'd call but I also wouldn't just sit around waiting for them either.

I was replying to his snide remark about the 'check the back seat' reminder.

 

[rreddy3]

I think this is more when you exit the car, close your door, and then go to open the rear door to get your baby out and find you are locked out of the car. Yes, I would be looking for something to break the glass with, but something might not be nearby.

Yes, that is the issue, along with people who are not capable of opening a door from the inside, and for pets.

For people in the car who are able to operate the inside habdle if the 12v fails, it’s one full pull all the way back on the front handle and a double pull if it’s a rear seat passenger opening a rear door to open the door, according to the owner’s manual.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Lee, do you know if this lockout issue is a continuation of last year’s lockout issue or if it is new and unrelated?

My recollection is an OTA, 10.0 or 10.1 (?), was pushed out last year and was considered the fix for the priblem at that time. After I received that OTA I dismantled the cord emergency opening patch you had devised.

Your suggesred emergency fix worked in my testing after I set it up but fortunately never had to use it in an actual lock out. Perhaps it’s time for a redo of it …

Thanks,

The fix is for this specific lockout issue that was identified in January. There has not been an OTA that addresses it yet.

The annoying thing is that the recall states:

In all of the affected vehicles, in the event of unexpected 12V battery discharge below 8.4V at key-off, the front door electronic latches retain their last lock/unlock status.

8.4V means you would have had to jump start the car to start it in the first place. That's a battery that would be completely toast already, and would likely not even hold a charge. I could only see a battery getting to that voltage in a short scenario or if the car sat for a long, long time.

The 12V battery may suddenly go completely dead while driving (such as going open circuit), this will create the lockout situation when the vehicle is switched off afterwards. In other words, it can suddenly happen to you with almost no warning. You would have to be observant and notice if the screens immediately shut off when you pressed the stop button, and remember to take action not to close the door after getting out.

Well supposedly according to what was released already....the PCM and SOBDMC modules get a software update to fix this problem. Just how updating those two modules will solve this 'lockout' problem is a mystery to me though...

I hope that's a mistake because the issue is with the door latch control modules not registering the state change (door latches need to be updated). I don't think a PCM update will fix it. Either way I will be testing after the recall fix comes out to verify it functions as intended in the case of sudden 12V failure.

I think this is more when you exit the car, close your door, and then go to open the rear door to get your baby out and find you are locked out of the car. Yes, I would be looking for something to break the glass with, but something might not be nearby.

Correct, the concern is for infants and pets, able-bodied people would be able to pull the interior door handle twice and get out just fine.

 

[Timelessblur]

Use head rest if inside, whatever you can outside. How often is someone locked in when everyone locked out and can't open door? But we have warning to check back seat cause 1 guy said he forgot his kids in car.

In this case what makes it scary is not forgetting it is is no warning and ones kids / dogs can be locked inside.
It is pretty common for my wife and me to get out of the car shut out doors while we are goign to the back door to open it for our kids. If that had happen to us with our kids in the car vs picking them up we would of panic and you are damn right we would of shattered a window but still scary big time if it was in the summer. AT the time it happen to us we most likely would of had the time to do the jump start tricket to get in but still would of super stressed doing it.

 

[rreddy3]

Got it..thanks

I would think a demonstration/delivery hold will turn up the heat on getting a fix PDQ (or as PDQ as possible instead of ‘soon’).

 

[circatee]

My my, this is all rather interesting, and timely, to say the least.

I was on the verge or getting my MachE replaced - poor dealership issues; plus they broke my glass roof!.

Alas, here we are...

 

[StevenC56]

Got it..thanks

I would think a demonstration/delivery hold will turn up the heat on getting a fix PDQ (or as PDQ as possible instead of ‘soon’).

This! 22 years at a Chevrolet Dealership and 18 at a Motorcycle Dealership. Any recall that pushes a "Stop Sale" is going to be job 1 until they get it resolved.

 

[mg_gti]

I hope that's a mistake because the issue is with the door latch control modules not registering the state change (door latches need to be updated). I don't think a PCM update will fix it. Either way I will be testing after the recall fix comes out to verify it functions as intended in the case of sudden 12V failure.

Wouldn't they just change it to auto-unlock all the doors during the power-down process?

 

[EB87]

So I guess when I park it in my garage I’ll just leave the window down?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Wouldn't they just change it to auto-unlock all the doors during the power-down process?

I hope not, because the voltage would probably decay faster than it can be detected and an unlock message sent. That would be like trying to send a SOS from an actively crashing airplane. Not impossible, but difficult to do.

It also should not unlock your doors until you open one, otherwise that's a safety risk if you park and shut the car off expecting to be locked inside still.

The best solution IMO is to just reprogram the door latches so they will go "unlocked" if the interior handle is pulled after 12V loss.

 

[mg_gti]

So I guess when I park it in my garage I’ll just leave the window down?

This is only an issue if the doors are locked. If they are unlocked the supercap in the door should allow you to open it when the battery is dead.

 

[EB87]

This is only an issue if the doors are locked. If they are unlocked the supercap in the door should allow you to open it when the battery is dead.

So for those of us that park in a garage. Should we just turn off walk away auto lock in the meantime, park it and leave it unlocked at home?

 

[mg_gti]

I hope not, because the voltage would probably decay faster than it can be detected and a message sent. That would be like trying to send a SOS from an actively crashing airplane. Not impossible, but difficult to do.

You'd have to do it while you still have known good power (aka prior to HVB disconnect).

It also should not unlock your doors until you open one, otherwise that's a safety risk if you park and shut the car off expecting to be locked inside still.

Lesser of two evils perhaps. I guess this can be fixed in the door module if

a) the door modules can be OTA'd
b) the door module can detect when the door has been manually opened while on supercap power
c) the door module is able to unlock the door while on supercap power

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