48 volt vs 12 volt aux battery

Maquis

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I always thought the automotive industry should have raised the standard electrical system voltage years ago. Just going to 24V would have measurably decreased cost and increased reliability.
12V was just so entrenched.
 

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Sounds like an amazing way to make sure people can’t put any aftermarket electronics in their cars…
 
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I'm almost certain Tesla et al will use 48->12 volt converters for USB plugs, cigar lighter circuits etc to maintain tech compatibility.
 

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I think Joe was referring to any hard-wired electronics. Definitely going to have to invest in a really high-powered voltage converter if you're going to add a sub or anything to the stereo system. That won't be good for the checking account. 😅🐩
 


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Industrial telecom has run 48vdc plant pretty much always. Still use 12v or 6v jars, curious of the size and amp hours the 48v jar would have.
 

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Industrial telecom has run 48vdc plant pretty much always. Still use 12v or 6v jars, curious of the size and amp hours the 48v jar would have.
For storing the same amount of energy, current and voltage are inversely proportional. So an equivalent 48V battery would only need to be 1/4 the A-H rating. Physical size shouldn’t change.
 

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I always thought the automotive industry should have raised the standard electrical system voltage years ago. Just going to 24V would have measurably decreased cost and increased reliability.
12V was just so entrenched.
They actually tried to go to 42 volts in the 90's. Ford was one of the early proponents, the Explorer was going to have a 42V system back around the turn of the century. Not sure why it didn't happen, probably because of initial cost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system

Ford prepares for next generation 42-volt systems

The 42-Volt Challenge

The high price of copper right now is a strong motivator for change. If Tesla goes 48V and makes it cheap enough, all the other automakers will jump ship. It's possible the next Mach-E might even have 48V.

High-power USB-C will take care of most modern devices, but it will be interesting to see is a 48V power port standard is adopted. It will likely need to be much smaller and use logic to switch the power on only when a valid device is plugged in for safety. Installing a dashcam or radar detector could also get more challenging if there's no longer a 12V source onboard. The 12V power port could disappear rapidly from cars just like CD slots and AM radio did.
 
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I would just be happy if Ford would get rid of the 12 volt lead acid battery. Tesla has moved on to a lithium ion 12 volt battery several years ago. That would be a huge upgrade in the MME.

https://insideevs.com/news/557722/amd-12v-liion-model3y-us/
Cost is probably the largest driver. Once Ford has a large enough EV footprint (still not viable for non-EVs) to make economies of scale work, I could see them switching too in order to save weight and space.
 

Maquis

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They actually tried to go to 42 volts in the 90's. Ford was one of the early proponents, the Explorer was going to have a 42V system back around the turn of the century. Not sure why it didn't happen, probably because of initial cost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system

Ford prepares for next generation 42-volt systems

The 42-Volt Challenge

The high price of copper right now is a strong motivator for change. If Tesla goes 48V and makes it cheap enough, all the other automakers will jump ship. It's possible the next Mach-E might even have 48V.

High-power USB-C will take care of most modern devices, but it will be interesting to see is a 48V power port standard is adopted. It will likely need to be much smaller and use logic to switch the power on only when a valid device is plugged in for safety. Installing a dashcam or radar detector could also get more challenging if there's no longer a 12V source onboard. The 12V power port could disappear rapidly from cars just like CD slots and AM radio did.
I wasn’t aware of the 42V push…very interesting. It’s something that would need an industry consortium in order to gain traction.

Given how cheap and compact switching power supplies are, having a 12V port in a 42/48V vehicle would be no more challenging (technically) than having the 5V USB ports we have in today’s 12V vehicles.
 

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I love how Tesla is claiming the innovation here...

This shift has been happening for more than a decade. Many mild hybrids already have a 48v system with a dc-dc converter for the user-interfacing stuff. Volvo, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and others are already using the 48V system.
 

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I think Joe was referring to any hard-wired electronics. Definitely going to have to invest in a really high-powered voltage converter if you're going to add a sub or anything to the stereo system. That won't be good for the checking account. 😅🐩
Only in the short term. Moving to 48V for car audio would be fantastic. No more having to run bulky 8 AWG or larger wire everywhere. No more giant capacitors to deal with voltage drop. The amplifiers would likely be more efficient. It would just take a few years to start seeing a large number of amplifiers that run off 48V natively

edit: one more point. Moving to 48V would make the outlet in the hatch of the Mach E support 600w rather than the 150W it does now (the wire is likely already rated for 48V, it’s just current limited). I could have used a much nicer subwoofer without having to rip my car apart and run larger wire. We could also use higher powered inverters to do 48V DC —> 120V AC without having to cut holes in the frunk.
 

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I love how Tesla is claiming the innovation here...

This shift has been happening for more than a decade. Many mild hybrids already have a 48v system with a dc-dc converter for the user-interfacing stuff. Volvo, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and others are already using the 48V system.
But it does look like they are leading the US auto industry. Like everyone copied their fixed glass roof, which I am not a fan of, maybe they will follow Tesla into 48V as well.

And what is the big fascination with the fixed glass roof anyway? The driver can't even enjoy it. An opening glass roof has a lot of benefits for the driver, IMO, and I really miss it in my MME.
 

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But it does look like they are leading the US auto industry.
Are they, though? The CT doesn't exist. They routinely announce tech that they're nowhere near ready to produce. Meanwhile, a 48V system exists in GM vehicles in China and is being prepped for US and EU production.

Like everyone copied their fixed glass roof, which I am not a fan of, maybe they will follow Tesla into 48V as well.

And what is the big fascination with the fixed glass roof anyway? The driver can't even enjoy it. An opening glass roof has a lot of benefits for the driver, IMO, and I really miss it in my MME.
I hate the glass roof and would have dropped it in a second if a real roof was available in a CR-1. I get headaches and nausea from flickering lights and the glass roof causes flickering on some common drives.
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