ADM added to my order at some point along the way

[rcechinel]

The very last line states "This is not a contract or offer for sale"...

Does not sound like a contract to me. My offer sheet was two pages, with the 2nd page containing all the legalese about the terms and conditions of sale. This is just as it says - a "worksheet".

So I suppose they could weasel out of it based on the fine print.

That was my fear as well, but they honored it, great dealership. But until I picked up the car and signed the paperwork, I was VERY AFRAID. This is a TERRIBLE business model...

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[mccdeuce]

People are talking about disposal and replacement. BEVs are not as new as some would like you to think.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement

TLDR:
LEAF Battery Replacement Cost
The LEAF battery itself costs about $4,500, placing the price per kWh at $187/kWh, which is 36% above the quoted 2020 $137/kWh price. Based on discussions with LEAF owners and endlessly scrolling through owner forums, the replacement cost 24 kWh battery in a Nissan Leaf is $5,500 including labor. (So for a 91 kWh MME - lets call it $15-18k)

What Happens to Secondhand LEAF Batteries?
One of those paths is providing backup power to either a data center as a stationary battery or as energy storage for a renewable power source. Stationary power does not have the same rigorous demands of an EV – namely rapid charging and discharging – so a battery can provide many additional years of support.

 

[devmach-e]

If BEV sales going up recently caused battery pack prices to go up a ton, please explain the period between 2010 and 2020 where BEV sales kept rising, and the battery material prices kept dropping. By a lot.

Everything costs more than it did 2 years ago.

 

[devmach-e]

That chart only shows a 4-year period, and yes, shows a sharp rise between 2021 and 2022, but shows a decline in prices prior to 2022.

These two charts paint a more complete picture, and definitely shows prices falling while EV sales have increased In that same time.

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statis...-and-share-of-cathode-material-cost-2011-2021

and

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statis...sales-market-share-of-electric-cars-2010-2021

 

[Rogue Pony]

At this point if dealers insist on an ADM, just tell them you will go buy a Tesla instead. Tesla is offering $7500 plus 10k free supercharging on all model 3 and Y. If Ford dealers continue to play games, they will be left with a bunch of overpriced Mach e sitting on their lots.

 

[Kafka]

A dealer in an adjacent state just got my identical or nearly identical order in, almost 2 weeks ahead of schedule.
If they don't play games with ADM, I will take it.

I also found a dealer in Wisconsin on autotrader.com who also listed one for MSRP and I was going to fly in and drive it back next week during a break, but they then tried to saddle the purchase with a $3k ADM disguised as me getting "free" exterior/interior protection plans. So I walked away.

As for my current deposit held up by the original shady dealer, AmEx initially denied my dispute without even researching it. I got in touch and they reopened it, so there's a good chance that I will bw getting that back.

 

[Kafka]

The new dealer just sent me a quote, they are quoting the vehicle at MSRP , however, like the Wisconsin dealer, they are trying to push these "Protection Plans" (Security Guard & Zurich Shield), this pads the quote by $950

What's with dealers pushing crappy stuff like this to pad the balance?
Is there any conceivable utility for me to go along with these Protection Plans?
Anybody here use them and got your money's worth when you filed a claim?
It looks like Zurich Shield is some sort of PPF or Ceramic, I'm reading that it's best to go with aftermarket solutions that are more thoroughly applied, and is Security Guard some sort of anti-theft Etching?

Also, they quoted a single line item as dealer documentation, $595 (they are out of state), and an unexplained "Non Tax Fees $618.50".

Sounds lilke a bit much, but when the NY dealer sent me a quote for the same car, it's broken down as:
Document fee $175
Registration fee $300
NY Electronic Filing Fee $1.93
NY Tire Fee $12.50
(NY) Inspection Fee $10

So, I'm going to ask the dealer in the nearby state what does the $595 include and whether they will register the car in NY (with inspection) for me, or whether I'll have to do that myself in which case $595 is a bit much.

Their loan quote seems to be for 7.07% APR despite me telling them about Ford credit and that I have a 800+ credit score, so that part is not going to work but I can either bring in a different lender or pay cash.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

The new dealer just sent me a quote, they are quoting the vehicle at MSRP , however, like the Wisconsin dealer, they are trying to push these "Protection Plans" (Security Guard & Zurich Shield), this pads the quote by $950

What's with dealers pushing crappy stuff like this to pad the balance?
Is there any conceivable utility for me to go along with these Protection Plans?
Anybody here use them and got your money's worth when you filed a claim?
It looks like Zurich Shield is some sort of PPF or Ceramic, I'm reading that it's best to go with aftermarket solutions that are more thoroughly applied, and is Security Guard some sort of anti-theft Etching?

Also, they quoted a single line item as dealer documentation, $595 (they are out of state), and an unexplained "Non Tax Fees $618.50".

Sounds lilke a bit much, but when the NY dealer sent me a quote for the same car, it's broken down as:
Document fee $175
Registration fee $300
NY Electronic Filing Fee $1.93
NY Tire Fee $12.50
(NY) Inspection Fee $10

So, I'm going to ask the dealer in the nearby state what does the $595 include and whether they will register the car in NY (with inspection) for me, or whether I'll have to do that myself in which case $595 is a bit much.

Their loan quote seems to be for 7.07% APR despite me telling them about Ford credit and that I have a 800+ credit score, so that part is not going to work but I can either bring in a different lender or pay cash.

Good luck getting under 7%. Not saying it’s impossible (I’m not sure what vehicle rate incentives are right now), but that’s the market prime rate right now. Even my home equity loan (also with 800+ credit and 35% equity in my home) is at 7%, although it’s a variable rate loan (prime + 49 bps).

 

[Kafka]

Good luck getting under 7%. Not saying it’s impossible (I’m not sure what vehicle rate incentives are right now), but that’s the market prime rate right now. Even my home equity loan (also with 800+ credit and 35% equity in my home) is at 7%, although it’s a variable rate loan (prime + 49 bps).

Ford Credit was quoting 4.99% on their site as recently as a couple of days ago, and those with reservations were getting the 4.49% in place a few months ago.
I started by asking for the 4.49%, thinking 4.99% at worst... (with Ford Credit).
Some dealerships work with financing other than Ford Credit that they try to promote and most often is not the most competitive for the customer, just more profitable for the dealership.

I think that I saw 5% and change with Bank of America minus a Premier customer discount of a few points.

Or cash. Or not buying anything, lol.

There are options, I do not need to be steered to a 7%+ loan from the dealer's favorite lender instead of my favorite.

 

[RedOctobrrr]

You realize this graph you found supports their argument about material costs going down, right? You also followed up with another chart that doesn't support your own argument and also doesn't refute the claims of the person you're trying to argue with.

 

[AKgrampy]

You realize this graph you found supports their argument about material costs going down, right? You also followed up with another chart that doesn't support your own argument and also doesn't refute the claims of the person you're trying to argue with.

I am not arguing either point but I will point out that the graph indicates that the material cost per cell has not gone down and is now 25% of the overall cost. I am not sure, pleading my ignorance, that the other costs involved can come down much more as the graph indicates they are leveling out. So it does indicate the possibility of the minerals being a more cost controlling factor moving forward. It is not indicated in the graph but increased demand will also start moving the price back up unless supply is also increased.

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