Battery degradation

[Earlofsandwich]

I had a question for everyone and there might not be a good answer. After about a year and half and 48k km I have 13% degradation on my 22 select. I used the car scanner app to check the HVB health which is at 87% and the energy to empty at 100 is 60 kWh which is way less the the 70 kWh max

My thought is that if the battery is sectioned into 8-10 individual battery modules, is it possible one of my modules completely died? Is there a way to check the health of the individual module health? I feel like I am in no mans land between normal degradation and enough degradation for a warranty claim I believe ford has the warranty set to below 70% health.
And yes up until today I always charge to 80% and only have charged to 100% a handful of times for long trips.
any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated sorry if there are other posts about this.

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[dtbaker61]

I'd guess that the battery health number might be inaccurate since you are looking at it while the vehicle is under heavy load and the voltage is 'sagging'.

I would:
- do a full charge overnight
- let the car 'sit' for at least 4 hours unplugged with ambient temp 15-25C
- THEN take another look

 

[Earlofsandwich]

I'd guess that the battery health number might be inaccurate since you are looking at it while the vehicle is under heavy load and the voltage is 'sagging'.

I would:
- do a full charge overnight
- let the car 'sit' for at least 4 hours unplugged with ambient temp 15-25C
- THEN take another look

I did do that last night in my heated garage. Might have been a little cooler than 15C - I just forgot to take a screen shot to get the numbers in a nice picture. the numbers were essentially the same as seen on this graph from last night

 

[dtbaker61]

mmm, you may have to:

charge all the way to 100% a couple times to allow 'top balancing' of cells to occur. There are a couple other readouts showing variation; if you have much variation it might indicate a problem.

unfortunately, I doubt Ford would do anything under warranty until you actually hit 70% as tested at the dealership.

 

[Earlofsandwich]

mmm, you may have to:

charge all the way to 100% a couple times to allow 'top balancing' of cells to occur. There are a couple other readouts showing variation; if you have much variation it might indicate a problem.

unfortunately, I doubt Ford would do anything under warranty until you actually hit 70% as tested at the dealership.

Interesting. Worth a shot. Worst case scenario I screw the battery up more to get under 70%. Like I said earlier I’m kinda stuck. There seems to be a problem but not a big enough one for them to fix it under warranty.

edit - I don’t have the LiFePO cells. Can I still top balance?

 

[dtbaker61]

Interesting. Worth a shot. Worst case scenario I screw the battery up more to get under 70%. Like I said earlier I’m kinda stuck. There seems to be a problem but not a big enough one for them to fix it under warranty.

edit - I don’t have the LiFePO cells. Can I still top balance?

The internal BMS handles all the balancing regardless of battery chemistry.....

with sealed batteries sired in serial/parallel, they usually have to held at the 'end of charge' voltage for a while to enable balancing between cells to take place and amp-hour 'counters' to reset as the charge current gradually drops to almost zero. Balancing cannot occur when the charging is chugging along at high current.

For most accurate SOC% and SOH% display, it is a good idea to charge to 100% at least one a month and leave the MME plugged in 'overnight'.

 

[Earlofsandwich]

The internal BMS handles all the balancing regardless of battery chemistry.....

with sealed batteries sired in serial/parallel, they usually have to held at the 'end of charge' voltage for a while to enable balancing between cells to take place and amp-hour 'counters' to reset as the charge current gradually drops to almost zero. Balancing cannot occur when the charging is chugging along at high current.

For most accurate SOC% and SOH% display, it is a good idea to charge to 100% at least one a month and leave the MME plugged in 'overnight'.

So with that idea should I charge to 100% just once a month or charge to 100% a few more times in a row?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Do this a couple times, see if it improves: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/hv-battery-calibration-procedure.23815/

 

[Earlofsandwich]

Do this a couple times, see if it improves: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/hv-battery-calibration-procedure.23815/

Thanks worth a shot!!!

 

[dtbaker61]

So with that idea should I charge to 100% just once a month or charge to 100% a few more times in a row?

at this point, I'd repeat the process two or three times:
- run battery down to 10-15%, could be over several days, just don't charge between
- plug-in and charge at L2 to 100%, and leave it plugged in for at least 2 hours after charge is complete.
- repeat.....
- THEN check SOH

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Follow Lee's procedure. There were some software changes that created inaccurate reporting of SoH. Independently of that, the SoH reported value drifts away from reality over time because of the way energy in and out is measured. The system needs to be recalibrated from time-to-time.

 

[Earlofsandwich]

Follow Lee's procedure. There were some software changes that created inaccurate reporting of SoH. Independently of that, the SoH reported value drifts away from reality over time because of the way energy in and out is measured. The system needs to be recalibrated from time-to-time.

I did notice that after one update my SoH really dropped a lot. So maybe it’s a software issue as well

 

[bbachrac]

I had a question for everyone and there might not be a good answer. After about a year and half and 48k km I have 13% degradation on my 22 select. I used the car scanner app to check the HVB health which is at 87% and the energy to empty at 100 is 60 kWh which is way less the the 70 kWh max

My thought is that if the battery is sectioned into 8-10 individual battery modules, is it possible one of my modules completely died? Is there a way to check the health of the individual module health? I feel like I am in no mans land between normal degradation and enough degradation for a warranty claim I believe ford has the warranty set to below 70% health.
And yes up until today I always charge to 80% and only have charged to 100% a handful of times for long trips.
any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated sorry if there are other posts about this.

Could you be more specific about the app with which you generated the table?
I currently have a 2023 Premium and recently the range forecast reporting has gotten quite erratic. The weather in California is 50-70 o. On this most recent charge tracking the initial range was initially what I expected. I did a stop and when I restarted the car the range all of sudden dropped 50 miles. I then had another increment when I stopped and started it dropped 20 miles.
I never had this problem with a 2021 and a 2022 and the SOC and Trip distance tracked very well. Currently the trip meter says I have gone 186 miles and the Battery SOC shows 52% but a range forecast of 116 miles.
The dealer did recently check the HVB and said they don't see any problem.
Perhaps it is in the Ford Software?

 

[Earlofsandwich]

Could you be more specific about the app with which you generated the table?
I currently have a 2023 Premium and recently the range forecast reporting has gotten quite erratic. The weather in California is 50-70 o. On this most recent charge tracking the initial range was initially what I expected. I did a stop and when I restarted the car the range all of sudden dropped 50 miles. I then had another increment when I stopped and started it dropped 20 miles.
I never had this problem with a 2021 and a 2022 and the SOC and Trip distance tracked very well. Currently the trip meter says I have gone 186 miles and the Battery SOC shows 52% but a range forecast of 116 miles.
The dealer did recently check the HVB and said they don't see any problem.
Perhaps it is in the Ford Software?

Using car scanner. In the process of doing the above bms reset thing mentioned. Could be a software thing

 

[mkhuffman]

Your reading is lower than average, IMO. Definitely do the procedure Lee prescribed and see if that increases the SoH. Also, at 100% measure the Energy to Empty, and divide the EtE when new into that figure to see if it is close to your SoH. In my case, it is pretty close. Sometimes I can get more EtE than the SoH predicts, sometimes a little less. So it seems like SoH is pretty accurate as long as it is calibrated properly.

Every couple of weeks I charge to 100% for my work commute. I have done it a bunch of times. My SoH is 90.5%, and I have 42k miles on the odometer. That is quite a bit more than yours, and the SoH of my battery is lower than average from what I can tell.

I am using this thread to track the SoH of my battery, and compare that to what others are seeing:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...e-of-health-how-much-decline-is-normal.26902/

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