Car&Driver article on EA charging failures

[glenthompson]

Interesting article on 3 EA charging failures that left vehicles stranded. No Mach-Es but one was a F-150.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

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[Logal727]

Interesting article on 3 EA charging failures that left vehicles stranded. No Mach-Es but one was a F-150.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43065558/ev-charging-station-broken-what-happens-next/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=030723&utm_campaign=nl30747754&GID=82abf586288ceac7107f8be6c0e8d95e4afaed9e6f5ab435d0a0cd8c3d91e20fsha256(email)}&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

Seems like both the Ford and Rivian wouldn't have been covered if the incidents didn't get so much attention. So we're all on our own if a charger messes up our car. Fantastic.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Interesting, this may require some legislation or case law in the future to clarify liability.

If you get bad gas at a gas station and it kills your engine, the gas station (or their insurance) has to pay for the repairs (which they usually do), or you can sue the gas station since it's 100% their fault.

If we use the above as a model, you'd think Electrify America should always have to pay if their charger blows your car. However, it's more complicated because it might not be 100% EA's fault. There could be a glitch in the car's software or communications with the charger that causes it to request way more current or voltage than it's supposed to. Or a problem with the battery or charge port. In those cases, it would be the car's fault.

So in reality if your pack fuse blows, you won't know if it's the car's fault or the charging station's fault. This has happened at least once to a Mach-E, and the owner last reported it was a stalemate of finger pointing between Ford and the charging company. Not good.

There needs to be clear guidance on who's responsible when a charging session bricks a car on Day 1. It is not acceptable to have your car in limbo for weeks or months while all the parties point fingers. I'm also disappointed Ford hasn't addressed this with some kind of statement rather than adopting a "maybe we'll replace your pack, maybe we won't" attitude. After hearing that GM always covers fuses blowing for customer peace of mind, I think Ford should do the same and litigate the charging companies on their own behalf if they deem them at fault.

My personal view is the car should take care of itself. So if the charger messes up, the fuse should blow or the contactors should open before anything on the car is permanently damaged. If the car fails to protect itself and becomes permanently damaged, then Ford should cover repairs under warranty (and recover their costs if they choose). This is one reason why Tesla uses a pyrofuse and high time precision current monitoring. If the current goes out of spec for more than a couple milliseconds, a Tesla can blow the pyrofuse so fast that nothing is damaged. (The pyrofuse is sort of a hybrid between a fuse and an airbag.) The Tesla gets towed to the service center, a Tesla tech pops off rear seat cushion and penthouse cover, and replaces the pyrofuse. Car is back on the road in only an hour or two. Hopefully Ford designs the next Mach-E similarly so the HVBJB and fuses can be replaced without having to drop the full pack.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

Interesting, this may require some legislation in the future to clarify liability.

If you get bad gas at a gas station and it kills your engine, the gas station (or their insurance) has to pay for the repairs (which they usually do), or you can sue the gas station since it's 100% their fault.

If we use the above as a model, you'd think Electrify America should always have to pay if their charger blows your car. However, it's more complicated because it might not be 100% EA's fault. There could be a glitch in the car's software or communications with the charger that causes it to request way more current or voltage than it's supposed to. Or a problem with the battery or charge port. In those cases, it would be the car's fault.

So in reality if your pack fuse blows, you won't know if it's the car's fault or the charging station's fault. This has happened at least once to a Mach-E, and the owner last reported it was a stalemate of finger pointing between Ford and the charging company. Not good.

There needs to be clear guidance on who's responsible when a charging session bricks a car on Day 1. It is not acceptable to have your car in limbo for months while all the parties point fingers. I'm also disappointed Ford hasn't addressed this with some kind of statement rather than adopting a "maybe we'll replace your pack, maybe we won't" attitude. After hearing that GM always covers fuses blowing, I think Ford should do the same and litigate the charging companies on their own behalf if they deem them at fault.

My personal view is the car should take care of itself. So if the charger messes up, the fuse should blow or the contactors should open before anything on the car is permanently damaged. If the car is permanently damaged, then Ford should cover repairs under warranty. This is one reason why Tesla uses a pyrofuse and high time precision current monitoring. If the current goes out of spec for more than a couple milliseconds, a Tesla can blow the fuse so fast that nothing is damaged. Tesla gets towed to the dealer, dealer pops off rear seat cushion and penthouse cover, and replaces the pyrofuse. Car is back on the road in only an hour or two. Hopefully Ford designs the next Mach-E similarly so the HVBJB and fuses can be replaced without having to drop the full pack.

Lee, you keep making thoughtful, well considered suggestions. Stop it - you’re ruining the Internet! ?

 

[Guss-E 2021]

So three (known) incidents out of six million sessions. Well, the article said the incidents were extremely rare. I think @Mach-Lee is right; there needs to be proactive laws addressing this. Right now it is three in three million but as EV adoptions continues to climb and those chargers start seeing way more session traffic, the ratio could climb.

 

[AZBill]

The fuse in my Bolt is accessible under the rear seat, no need to drop the battery.

 

[SpongeBad]

Right now it is three in three million

I prefer to look at it as one in a million.

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