Charging costs

[MME Farmer]

Just curious, as much as I don't care to go to Minneapolis anymore because you might have to dodge bullets, I had to take someone to the airport. In fact I was in Woodbury yesterday and someone was shot and killed in their car there yesterday. Anyway I charged at the EA at Woodbury and there are 8 chargers and most had VW's at them and they charge $.40/kwh. The reason I drove out of my way to charge is because other chargers were not working, dealers only allowed their brands, or they were level 2's or whatever. I'm just wondering how many of those charge there all the time as they live in apartments and such. Now that it's colder my GTPE is getting down in the lower 2's per kwh. Thankfully I charge off peak at home and even at the poor efficiency it's still pretty reasonable. But if you're paying $.40 all the time in the cold weather I would think a gasser would be much more reasonable.

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[RickMachE]

Just curious, as much as I don't care to go to Minneapolis anymore because you might have to dodge bullets, I had to take someone to the airport. In fact I was in Woodbury yesterday and someone was shot and killed in their car there yesterday. Anyway I charged at the EA at Woodbury and there are 8 chargers and most had VW's at them and they charge $.40/kwh. The reason I drove out of my way to charge is because other chargers were not working, dealers only allowed their brands, or they were level 2's or whatever. I'm just wondering how many of those charge there all the time as they live in apartments and such. Now that it's colder my GTPE is getting down in the lower 2's per kwh. Thankfully I charge off peak at home and even at the poor efficiency it's still pretty reasonable. But if you're paying $.40 all the time in the cold weather I would think a gasser would be much more reasonable.

Your information is incorrect. Electrify America's rates are the same nationwide, two different types of rates. Most states are per kWh. Rate is $0.43, plus tax, OR if you pay $4 for a month of Pass+ it's $0.31 plus tax - breakeven is very quick (like 2nd charge), and you can downgrade immediately and it takes effect in 30 days.

In some states, EA charges by the minute - 32 cents, 24 cents with Pass+.

If you live in a place where you can't charge, and you can't find any free chargers at work and such, using a level 3 charger is clearly not the best cost, but you'd be paying 31 cents plus tax, say 33 cents total. At 2.3 miles per kWh, that's a cost of 14.3 cents per mile.

With $3.75 gas, that would be 26 miles per gallon. Many ICE cars get worse. And, if you're in a state where EA charges by the minute, it works out to about 15 cents per kWh, so that's 6.5 cents a mile. And of course just the cost of winter isn't valid, you'd want to take an annual average.

Lastly, no one buys a $60,000 to save money, because an ICE car would cost much less and you never breakeven.

 

[awp0]

In MA, one of our primary electric utilities (NationalGrid) just increased our electricity rate by 64% all at once on Nov 1. I believe my home electricity rate (including their long list of fees) will be pretty similar to the EA rate. I didn’t really buy this car primarily to save money, thankfully.

The funny thing is that the utility companies need to get approval from the state to change their rates. If a 64% increase was approved, it kind of makes you wonder what the point of the approval process is.

 

[MME Farmer]

Your information is incorrect. Electrify America's rates are the same nationwide, two different types of rates. Most states are per kWh. Rate is $0.43, plus tax, OR if you pay $4 for a month of Pass+ it's $0.31 plus tax - breakeven is very quick (like 2nd charge), and you can downgrade immediately and it takes effect in 30 days.

In some states, EA charges by the minute - 32 cents, 24 cents with Pass+.

If you live in a place where you can't charge, and you can't find any free chargers at work and such, using a level 3 charger is clearly not the best cost, but you'd be paying 31 cents plus tax, say 33 cents total. At 2.3 miles per kWh, that's a cost of 14.3 cents per mile.

With $3.75 gas, that would be 26 miles per gallon. Many ICE cars get worse. And, if you're in a state where EA charges by the minute, it works out to about 15 cents per kWh, so that's 6.5 cents a mile. And of course just the cost of winter isn't valid, you'd want to take an annual average.

Lastly, no one buys a $60,000 to save money, because an ICE car would cost much less and you never breakeven.

Thanks, good to know. I know my car is supposed to charge at 150 kwh which I have seen in warmer weather, yesterday I think it was more in the 85 kwh range so that takes the edge off the per minute charge a bit. I agree with what you said I'm just wondering if you live in an apartment without access to charging if it really is that great to have an EV. Don't get me wrong, it's not all about the costs as there are definitely other pluses along with some other minuses.

 

[AKgrampy]

In MA, one of our primary electric utilities (NationalGrid) just increased our electricity rate by 64% all at once on Nov 1. I believe my home electricity rate (including their long list of fees) will be pretty similar to the EA rate. I didn’t really buy this car primarily to save money, thankfully.

The funny thing is that the utility companies need to get approval from the state to change their rates. If a 64% increase was approved, it kind of makes you wonder what the point of the approval process is.

Is it your overall rate or just the cost of power (generation) component? Utilities have to justify their rate increases and when fuel prices go up their cost of power follows. Our cost of power fluctuates quarterly. Utilities, in general, are only allowed a regulated rate of return. The approval process does try to ensure the costs the utilities use for their rates are justified costs.

 

[AKgrampy]

Just curious, as much as I don't care to go to Minneapolis anymore because you might have to dodge bullets, I had to take someone to the airport. In fact I was in Woodbury yesterday and someone was shot and killed in their car there yesterday. Anyway I charged at the EA at Woodbury and there are 8 chargers and most had VW's at them and they charge $.40/kwh. The reason I drove out of my way to charge is because other chargers were not working, dealers only allowed their brands, or they were level 2's or whatever. I'm just wondering how many of those charge there all the time as they live in apartments and such. Now that it's colder my GTPE is getting down in the lower 2's per kwh. Thankfully I charge off peak at home and even at the poor efficiency it's still pretty reasonable. But if you're paying $.40 all the time in the cold weather I would think a gasser would be much more reasonable.

You hit one of the major issues on EV adoption. First, at least for now, they are expensive and not affordable by all. But second their will be a class distinction between operating costs as those in apartments, etc that can not charge at home will pay significantly more than those who can charge at home. As @RickMachE mentioned it is still more economical over an annual average in either case but the “haves” will have lower operating costs over the “have nots”.

 

[awp0]

Is it your overall rate or just the cost of power (generation) component? Utilities have to justify their rate increases and when fuel prices go up their cost of power follows. Our cost of power fluctuates quarterly. Utilities, in general, are only allowed a regulated rate of return. The approval process does try to ensure the costs the utilities use for their rates are justified costs.

It was only the cost of the power itself. It went up from .114/kWh to .182, while the distribution charge and other fees stayed mostly the same.

So the new total cost of electricity (with all the fees) via NationalGrid in MA is .324/kWh, which is more than EA with a subscription! It's pretty crazy. We have a few quotes for solar, but our roof isn't ideal.

Edit: I was wrong. The supply price is more than doubling, resulting in the total price rising by 64%. I'm thinking about switching to Constellation which will be about 50% of the new National Grid price if I commit for 3 years. The cancellation fee is only $150, which is basically about a month's worth of price difference so there doesn't seem to be a down side.

 

[AKgrampy]

It was only the cost of the power itself. It went up from .114/kWh to .182, while the distribution charge and other fees stayed mostly the same.

So the new total cost of electricity (with all the fees) via NationalGrid in MA is .324/kWh, which is more than EA with a subscription! It's pretty crazy. We have a few quotes for solar, but our roof isn't ideal.

It is mostly dark all winter here in Fairbanks but if I did not live surrounded by woods I would install solar. Our power is right at 26 cents per kWh.

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