Charging with heat on

[Twilloo]

I typed in the search and did not find anything that related but I could have missed it. Ford says to not use heater while charging especially dc fast charging but it implies to never leave heater on while charging even at home. If that is the case then how do you set your battery and cabin preconditioning if you not leave the heater on the night before or while you are charging.

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[RickMachE]

I typed in the search and did not find anything that related but I could have missed it. Ford says to not use heater while charging especially dc fast charging but it implies to never leave heater on while charging even at home. If that is the case then how do you set your battery and cabin preconditioning if you not leave the heater on the night before or while you are charging.

No, they didn't imply that. Heat on during DC charging is diverting heat that they want to send to the battery, and impacting the speed of the charging. There was nothing said about charging at home.

Charging at home takes place without the car running. In addition, when set to Auto for remote starting, or when using a departure time, the heat is coming on (if conditions require it). Only when you remote start using last settings, and the heat was turned off when you shut the car down, would it not come on during a remote start. It still would come on during a departure time.

Here are Ford's tips:

Tips for maximizing your BEV's range in cold weather

1. Park in a garage wherever possible.
2. Keep your BEV plugged in when parked.
3. Precondition your vehicle using departure times to warm the cabin and the battery while plugged-in.
4. Use the heated seats and steering wheel (if available) for primary heat to reduce energy consumed by the Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system.
5. When charging, turn off the heater.
6. If your vehicle is covered with snow, brush all the snow off before driving to remove extra weight and drag.
7. Keep your driving speeds moderate as high speeds use more energy.
8. Ensure your tires are at the proper pressure.

#3 clearly states that the cabin is going to be warmed with preconditioning, which happens with departure times, which doesn't happen with level 3 fast chargers, only with level 2 chargers.

#5 doesn't specify level 3 or level 2. Clearly, you can use either level of charger when you are traveling. If you pull up to a charger, and plan on staying in the vehicle, they're telling you to turn off the heat, because you using the heat causes the battery to be colder, and thus lengthen the amount of time that the charging session will take.

Nothing in #5 refers to at home. People don't pull into their homes and leave the car running with the heater on as a matter of normal operation. They park, turn off the car, and plug in. Therefore, the heater is off.

 

[Twilloo]

No, they didn't imply that. Heat on during DC charging is diverting heat that they want to send to the battery, and impacting the speed of the charging. There was nothing said about charging at home.

Charging at home takes place without the car running. In addition, when set to Auto for remote starting, or when using a departure time, the heat is coming on (if conditions require it). Only when you remote start using last settings, and the heat was turned off when you shut the car down, would it not come on during a remote start. It still would come on during a departure time.

Here are Ford's tips:

Tips for maximizing your BEV's range in cold weather

1. Park in a garage wherever possible.
2. Keep your BEV plugged in when parked.
3. Precondition your vehicle using departure times to warm the cabin and the battery while plugged-in.
4. Use the heated seats and steering wheel (if available) for primary heat to reduce energy consumed by the Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system.
5. When charging, turn off the heater.
6. If your vehicle is covered with snow, brush all the snow off before driving to remove extra weight and drag.
7. Keep your driving speeds moderate as high speeds use more energy.
8. Ensure your tires are at the proper pressure.

#3 clearly states that the cabin is going to be warmed with preconditioning, which happens with departure times, which doesn't happen with level 3 fast chargers, only with level 2 chargers.

#5 doesn't specify level 3 or level 2. Clearly, you can use either level of charger when you are traveling. If you pull up to a charger, and plan on staying in the vehicle, they're telling you to turn off the heat, because you using the heat causes the battery to be colder, and thus lengthen the amount of time that the charging session will take.

Nothing in #5 refers to at home. People don't pull into their homes and leave the car running with the heater on as a matter of normal operation. They park, turn off the car, and plug in. Therefore, the heater is off.

I am just quoting #5 in the FP app. "When charging turn of the heater-especially when using direct current fast charging DCFS" I guess the word especially threw me from the inference from the very first statement.

 

[Twilloo]

No, they didn't imply that. Heat on during DC charging is diverting heat that they want to send to the battery, and impacting the speed of the charging. There was nothing said about charging at home.

Charging at home takes place without the car running. In addition, when set to Auto for remote starting, or when using a departure time, the heat is coming on (if conditions require it). Only when you remote start using last settings, and the heat was turned off when you shut the car down, would it not come on during a remote start. It still would come on during a departure time.

Here are Ford's tips:

Tips for maximizing your BEV's range in cold weather

1. Park in a garage wherever possible.
2. Keep your BEV plugged in when parked.
3. Precondition your vehicle using departure times to warm the cabin and the battery while plugged-in.
4. Use the heated seats and steering wheel (if available) for primary heat to reduce energy consumed by the Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system.
5. When charging, turn off the heater.
6. If your vehicle is covered with snow, brush all the snow off before driving to remove extra weight and drag.
7. Keep your driving speeds moderate as high speeds use more energy.
8. Ensure your tires are at the proper pressure.

#3 clearly states that the cabin is going to be warmed with preconditioning, which happens with departure times, which doesn't happen with level 3 fast chargers, only with level 2 chargers.

#5 doesn't specify level 3 or level 2. Clearly, you can use either level of charger when you are traveling. If you pull up to a charger, and plan on staying in the vehicle, they're telling you to turn off the heat, because you using the heat causes the battery to be colder, and thus lengthen the amount of time that the charging session will take.

Nothing in #5 refers to at home. People don't pull into their homes and leave the car running with the heater on as a matter of normal operation. They park, turn off the car, and plug in. Therefore, the heater is off.

Yes thank you, when you put all of the recommendations together it does infer that preconditioning is different. Thank you for the clarification

 

[RickMachE]

Yes thank you, when you put all of the recommendations together it does infer that preconditioning is different. Thank you for the clarification

I agree they could be much clearer.

Keep in mind that there is no "preconditioning" option. The two options that you have are to set a departure time (which does precondition the battery, and prewarm/cool the cabin, when the vehicle is plugged into a level 2 charger), and remote starting, which doesn't precondition the battery per those that have analyzed the information.

 

[benk016]

When DCFC, if you are running the heater, you will lose up to 7kw to the heater. The station might report 100kw charging, but the battery will be receiving about 93kw, instead of the full 100kw. (Not including any losses)

Also, if the battery is cold, it will try to use the heater to help warm the pack up faster, but if you're heating the cabin, it can't heat the battery as fast, which can result in slower charging until the battery is warm. However, Just using DCFC at all will cause the battery to warm up pretty quickly on its own, if its charging at a decent speed.

Fords info is more like tips to get the best possible charging speeds.

 

[Twilloo]

When DCFC, if you are running the heater, you will lose up to 7kw to the heater. The station might report 100kw charging, but the battery will be receiving about 93kw, instead of the full 100kw. (Not including any losses)

Also, if the battery is cold, it will try to use the heater to help warm the pack up faster, but if you're heating the cabin, it can't heat the battery as fast, which can result in slower charging until the battery is warm. However, Just using DCFC at all will cause the battery to warm up pretty quickly on its own, if its charging at a decent speed.

Fords info is more like tips to get the best possible charging speeds.

Thanks for the info. It was helpful

 

[Deleted member 9461]

If it's freezing, or scorcher, think it's a fair trade off to add say 15/20 min to charging to not freeze, or cook like the brain on drugs commercial. previous EV only charged at 50KW, and was like run heat...or do the shiver dance...

 

[JCHLi]

Oddly, just before that email notice from Ford I was seeing the impact of this. Since it's cold and snowy I was sitting in the car with the heater on, wondering why charging was so slow. But I noticed if I turned it off, it quickly ramped up. Also, it almost felt warmer without the heater on....

 

[noway]

One more advice: Charging at 100kW+ gives a lot of heat into the battery! More than the 5kW heater can do.

Charge at a 120kW+ charger if possible and have the state of charge as close to 10% as possible. It will allow charging at 100kW+ for a short amout of time, and charging at 100kW+ gives more heat into the battery than the 5kW heater does. With the E-heat turned off for about 10 minutes and 100kW+ charging it takes a lot less time to heat the battery to the about 20C required to charge at peak power above 100kW.

If the battery is at about 10C when starting to charge it will be able to run full 150kW from the start. This means on first charge on a long drive it might be better to run the battery down to 10%, charge for 10-20 minutes or so on a 50kW just to heat the battery to above freezing, then drive until 10% again and charge it on a 150kW charger, if possible. Plugging it directly into a 150kW charger means it will have to spend the <40% state of charge just on heating the battery, and charging speed will suffer in total, peaking at around 90kW instead of 150kW.

The software will stop heating the battery at about 10C on a 50kW charger, but will run to 20C on a 150kW charger. If charging even at -20C having 10C from the beginning on a 150kW charger, it may even start the AC compressor to cool the battery before reacing 80% state of charge (battery above 35C), which is kind of strange when its running the cabin heater to heat the cabin while running the AC compressor at the same time. This is what we get from not having a "heat pump enabled" system.

Charging in freezing temperatures starting above 50% state of charge is a waste of time.. no heating of battery, no charging speed giving heat.

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