Could Charging Speed Increase to 350 kW via OTA?

[kltye]

A more apt metaphor would be changing from a 32 bit to 64 bit cpu. You can't just replace the cpu; the bus and everything else has to be upgraded. In a computer that's pretty easy and inexpensive to replace the guts inside of the case, even though it requires changing almost everything except the peripherals (potentially including the power supply). Doing that in a car is problematic.

As @Maquis said the cheaper procedure would be to replace the car.

That's if we want to upgrade to wildly faster charging and/or 800v architecture. But what if, after 10+ years, your pack capacity has dropped by say 15%, and you wanted more capacity then? We could still use the same cell configuration, but use cells with higher energy density. That actually happened with late model Fusion Energis; they added capacity (with an increase in weight), but kept the same form factor and space used.

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[AZBill]

I'd be very happy if the MME ER pack could get from 10% to 80% in 30 minutes. Right now under ideal conditions it does it in 41 minutes which is at least 5 minutes too long. We're getting smoked at the charging stations by ID4 at 29 minutes and the Koreans are in another league at 18 minutes.

The ID 4 number you quoted is for SR with less than 220 miles of range. The ER version takes 34 minutes.

Personally I have never charged my MME for more than 25 minutes on a trip. Usually 60% gets me to the next charger or to home, so I stop at that point. I never look at 80% as a requirement.

 

[s7davis]

I think someone brought this up to Jim Farley or one of the execs at Ford Edison Project team and they said that if they were planning on using the higher speed charging they would have put it in the vehicle. He did mention the higher rate voltage architecture was much more expensive to use so they used the cheaper lower votage architecture. THe only way the MAch-E will get to really use the 350 DCFC is if Ford just a remodel and completely changes the electrical components with the thicker, liquid cooled system.

 

[iankellogg]

Just get me closer to the 120 miles in 15 minutes and i'll be a happy camper. I know these aren't in the same price bracket but the lucid air can do 100 miles in 5 minutes, the EQS can do 100 miles in like 8 minutes, the tesla can do 100 miles in around 10 minutes. Its frustrating when its nearly 30 minutes for 120 miles

 

[nhammerschmidt]

No. The 400V architecture maxes out at 200kW at the 500A max rating of the CCS standard. And the battery in the MME is actually less than 400V, so we won’t even see that.

How does a model Y achieve 200+ KWh on a >400 volt architecture.

 

[generaltso]

How does a model Y achieve 200+ KWh on a >400 volt architecture.

Tesla doesn't use the CCS standard. And even where they do in Europe, they can bend the limits since they control the charging hardware and the car.

 

[Stevey]

We are at the beginning stages and I think architecture and range are going to be chasing each other for a while. Don't forget it wasn't just 5 years ago that 300 miles was very challenging. Watching an industry as large as the automotive industry go through a disruption like this is truly interesting.

 

[silverelan]

The ID 4 number you quoted is for SR with less than 220 miles of range. The ER version takes 34 minutes.

Personally I have never charged my MME for more than 25 minutes on a trip. Usually 60% gets me to the next charger or to home, so I stop at that point. I never look at 80% as a requirement.

ID4 gets 54kWh in 29 minutes. Including charging losses, that’s probably close to 120kW for a half hour.

I can only speculate on why Mach-E can’t match ID4's charge speeds.

 

[AZBill]

ID4 gets 54kWh in 29 minutes. Including charging losses, that’s probably close to 120kW for a half hour.

I can only speculate on why Mach-E can’t match ID4's charge speeds.

I did a charge in Tucson in March, where I added 35kwh to the car in 21 minutes (42kwh at the charger). That was 20% to 60%. The average rate to get that was >120kw.

 

[silverelan]

I did a charge in Tucson in March, where I added 35kwh to the car in 21 minutes (42kwh at the charger). That was 20% to 60%. The average rate to get that was >120kw.

Right, and then it drops to 75-80kW until 80%. That's a full 20 minutes sitting flat ≤80kW.

So the question is, why won't they instead just hold at 120kW or taper down to 100kW at 80%?

 

[s7davis]

I think its the heat of all th electrons going to the battery. THe charging stations start throttle up and down once the battery starts to get too hot to give the car time to cool down the battery so it can then throttle back up a little bit. The interesting factor in EVs really is the charging Curve.

I have seen so many videos on charging curves on different EVs and it is very informative when looking to get into the EV market. These lets me know somewhat of how fast these cars can charge. I will never get an ID4, Leaf, Bolt, or any other brand that can not charge 100 miles in like 20 minutes or less. I would want a car that can hold a charge into the 50 - 60% range before dropping.

However, I think the only car that can do that right now is Lucid lol. Go figure a car way out of my price range.

 

[ajmartineau]

I'm hoping that our charging speed will get bumped up to the same as the F150 (small battery). That would make me very happy. @Ford Motor Company

 

[silverelan]

I'm hoping that our charging speed will get bumped up to the same as the F150 (small battery). That would make me very happy. @Ford Motor Company

SR Lightning is 15-80% in 44 mins. I haven't seen the curve yet but that seems slower than MME ER packs.

 

[iankellogg]

I think its the heat of all th electrons going to the battery. THe charging stations start throttle up and down once the battery starts to get too hot to give the car time to cool down the battery so it can then throttle back up a little bit. The interesting factor in EVs really is the charging Curve.

I have seen so many videos on charging curves on different EVs and it is very informative when looking to get into the EV market. These lets me know somewhat of how fast these cars can charge. I will never get an ID4, Leaf, Bolt, or any other brand that can not charge 100 miles in like 20 minutes or less. I would want a car that can hold a charge into the 50 - 60% range before dropping.

However, I think the only car that can do that right now is Lucid lol. Go figure a car way out of my price range.

If you watch the car charge on ODB2 you'll see it runs the battery heater full (6kw) until it hits 95f then it runs the AC to maintain around 98f. Its really incredibly dumb to waste so much power heating the battery instead of letting the battery do the heating itself. Unless there is something i'm missing it seems silly to use heater when its 70F outside

 

[dtbaker61]

The only way that I see charging speeds increasing to at least 200KW is if/when the aftermarket comes up with an upgraded battery pack and software kit. Once these cars start rolling over their 100,000 mile warranty then there will definitely be a demand for replacement packs.

replacement packs *could be* solid state by then, which could accept much higher charge rates.... the the DCFC wiring harness and HVBJB would also have to be changed to handle higher currents.

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