Dealers getting in the way

shutterbug

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This sounds like the awesome experience I'm expecting. Out of curiousity, did you basically do the Ford Options calculations on the Ford web site before you showed up to understand what you believe you should have had? How did you drive making them change it as opposed to just telling you "well this is the deal you get from Ford Options". Just curious.
I used the spreadsheet posted by @macchiaz-o. I also had printouts of documents posted here by @hybrid2bev. I spoke politely, but firmly. I also went in on Tuesday morning, when they weren't busy ( I was literally the only customer there). I also let him know that I had pre-approved financing from my credit union, which meant that he would get squat. I also knew that @hybrid2bev had offered to and helped several members here resolve Issues with dealer ignorance/dipshittery of Ford Options. I didn't need to ask him for help, but that was in my back pocket. The whole Optins discussion took an hour and a half, but in the end he got it right. At no time did he say "well this is the deal you get from Ford Options". He figured out that he was not dealing with a low information rube and acted accordingly.
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SpaceEVDriver

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If I'm going to drop a huge chunk of cash, I am willing to invest a bit of time, to make sure I don't get taken. I can see using email as part of this, but a phone call and a visit will probably come first.
Interesting. It's the opposite for me. A visit to their lot is the last thing I'll do.

  • I'll check out their websites first.
    • If they're advertising cars with 10-40% ADM, examples of which we've seen posted here, then they're out. I don't just look at the vehicle I'm interested in buying, but many different vehicles.
    • If they claim an MSRP that doesn't match the window sticker, then they're out.
    • If they add sketchy junk like window etching or paint protection without asking first, then they're out.
    • If they make it difficult for me to find the window sticker or VIN, they're out.
    • If they have, "call for price" instead of a price, they're out. I know about MAP, but I've never had a dealer start with a price lower than MSRP unless the vehicle was a previous model year. There isn't an MME dealer out there who is hiding their price because it's lower than MAP.
    • If they're selling used vehicles way above KBB or other used options in the area, then they're out.
  • Then I'll look for reviews of the dealer. I first look at the 2-,3-, and 4-star reviews to see why people think they're mediocre. Extremes (1 or 5 stars) tend to be more emotional. If there are consistent problems that I don't want to deal with, then I'll put that dealer lower on the list of potential visits. If those consistent problems also appear in the 1-star reviews, then they're likely out.
  • Then I send an email to ask about a specifics (do they actually have any of the vehicles they're advertising? do they honor X-Plan? will they give me an OTD in writing for a cash sale? etc). I also ask if they have a vehicle on the lot. If I get avoidance, generic responses, or a request to come in to talk, then they're at the bottom of the list or off the list entirely.

After narrowing the list down to two or three dealers, I'll ask about scheduling a test drive or, if they're nearby, I'll go in for a test drive. Visiting the lot is at the bottom of my process, though, because if I need to visit more than one dealer for any particular brand, I have to drive at least several hours. The only time I'll go to the dealership early in the process is if I don't plan to purchase the vehicle they have on the lot but do want to test it.

Basically, most of the work I do before buying a car is protecting myself from unethical dealers. I've had too many dealers try to burn me over the years. I don't even trust the ones I've purchased from before; the turnover rate is so high.
 

jonasSteen

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Another take on dealership destroying the purchase proces, from the EU continent.. but as frustrating.

I bought my MME 1/8.. still waiting deliveryto Denmark. When ordering the car I was told that Ford would distribuere available MME’s in the network of people already ordered.

I was called by my dealer at Friday 10th of September, he told me there was 2 MME with my spec available in the country for immediate delivery and asked if i was interested… Well of cause.

Later same day dealer called again and told med the dealers having the car would not let Them go into the network. On Monday 13th I ways again called by the dealer now telling me that the cars suddently was no longer available!!

I wrote @Ford Motor Company in Denmark and asked them why.. just getting below answer (translat from Danish)


unfortunately we cannot control the single dealers since all of them are Independent companies. Therefore i suggest that you Call your dealer and buy another car.


Sorry Ford.. but if I am gonna buy another car it is being a Tesla Model Y and not a Ford what-ever! And if it was not because the MME was so nice, I would have dine Long ago!!

Meanwhile I am still waiting for my car stucked somewhere i Mexico and I can see dealers putting new MME’s on their website for immidiately delivery every week!

I don’t get why @Ford Motor Company cannot manage the distribution proces, both Tesla and Polestar seems to do very good on this!!
 

OrchidMania

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In my experience with Ford.com online ordering my CalRt1 (still waiting) the Ford order process will show you the ADM but not whatever standard dealer fee the selected dealer charges. For example, here in south Florida the ADMs varied from nil to $3,000. I chose a nil ADM dealer, with a standard (applied by dealer to any new car purchase) dealer fee of $749. Everything agreed to in writing.
I used X plan at Metro Ford in Miami. Basicaly 2% less than MSRP plus $275 and $100 max registration fees. No dealer fee. Perhaps you should check out X plan.
 

Mach1E

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Most of the dealer model complaints center around one thing: Price.

Seems like the manufacturer can fix that very easily. And with vehicles like the Mach E mostly selling at Msrp, it is already “fixed.”

The downside is that for every six people that hate to “haggle,” there’s another six that love to haggle for a deal. Can’t please everyone.
 


Ghost Ryder

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I've never owned a Ford before. How do dealers feel about servicing your car at a dealer that you didn't buy from?

Do they treat you any differently than those that bought the car there?

Are loaners guaranteed?
 

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I've never owned a Ford before. How do dealers feel about servicing your car at a dealer that you didn't buy from?

Do they treat you any differently than those that bought the car there?

Are loaners guaranteed?
I've never had an issue with getting service at any Ford dealer. Loaners? Well, that's a different story. Typically depends on the dealer. With our BMWs we always got some kind of loaner, maybe not a BMW, but a loaner. Or they picked us up at home and took us back.
 

Mach1E

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I've never owned a Ford before. How do dealers feel about servicing your car at a dealer that you didn't buy from?

Do they treat you any differently than those that bought the car there?

Are loaners guaranteed?
You can get service anywhere.

And as long as you aren’t expecting “special treatment” and everything goes perfectly fine to the letter of the warranty, doesn’t matter where you get serviced.

Now when something DOES go wrong outside the normal and you need the dealer to be on your side asking for something special from Ford, it helps when you get serviced where you bought it.

Found this out on my SS when the power steering went out……. 3 weeks out of warranty.

GM gives you an allowance for a situation like this. It’s literally a formula based on where you bought the car and where you’ve been getting it serviced. You get more if you’re loyal. Luckily I got fully reimbursed later as it was recalled a year later, but it was a good lesson and peak behind the curtain about “how things work.”
 

TRP

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You can get service anywhere.

And as long as you aren’t expecting “special treatment” and everything goes perfectly fine to the letter of the warranty, doesn’t matter where you get serviced.

Now when something DOES go wrong outside the normal and you need the dealer to be on your side asking for something special from Ford, it helps when you get serviced where you bought it.

Found this out on my SS when the power steering went out……. 3 weeks out of warranty.

GM gives you an allowance for a situation like this. It’s literally a formula based on where you bought the car and where you’ve been getting it serviced. You get more if you’re loyal. Luckily I got fully reimbursed later as it was recalled a year later, but it was a good lesson and peak behind the curtain about “how things work.”
Also depends on the car.............I can attest to being treated very differently when I showed up with my GT500 than my Escort beater
 

sotek2345

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I think the future of dealers is in used vehicles and as delivery points for new vehicles (with some demo models). I can see moving to ordering all new cars/trucks, but the condition of used can vary wildly. I can't imagine ever buying a used vehicle online (sight unseen) - especially those that have no warranty with them.
 

JohnnyForensic

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I like not having to haggle on a price (set from company), but agree there are dealers taking advantage. I saw one post talking about $1,000 for locking lug nuts and the dealer insisted upon it. Times are tough, but people won't take it sitting down.
I was loaded for bear when I went into the finance office when I picked up my car. The guy definitely wasn't happy when I asked if he could beat Ziegler Ford's Warranty price (he couldn't), and he was less happy when I told him "I want these loan terms from Ford credit or I'm just going to pay cash," (I got the terms), and he had a frown the whole time, but I walked out without any extra pressure.
 

Texas-E

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I agree that the traditional dealership model needs to change for the EV wave that is coming. I don't think Tesla's model is the right one, either. I know we bought our Mach-E's for a variety of reasons, but the dealership service model is one of the big ones for me. We have close friends that had a tough time with their 2 MSs. Maybe they are an anomaly, but I saw it first hand.

I'm sure a lot of you here know this, but take a look at this Edmund's write up of dealership profitability if you want to learn more- https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/where-does-the-car-dealer-make-money.html

I think these are generally accurate enough percentages to go by:

"According to the most recent data from the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), the new-vehicle department of a car dealership accounts for about 58% of a dealership's total sales but less than 26% of a dealership's total gross profit. In addition to car sales, that figure also reflects profits from finance and insurance (F&I) products sold on new cars."

"The used-vehicle department represents only about 31% of a dealership's total sales, but profit is close to that of the new-car department: nearly 25%. of a dealership's gross profit, according to NADA. In addition to car sales, the figure also reflects profits from F&I products sold on used cars."

"So where does the majority of a dealership's profit come from? It's not from car sales, at least not directly. It's from the service and parts department, which accounts for the other 49.6% of the dealership's gross profits, according to NADA."

Dealerships, really just franchises, are going to have to change going forward. That 49.6% of services/parts gross profit isn't going to hold up in an EV-focused future.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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Most of the dealer model complaints center around one thing: Price.
I don't think it's *just* about price.

Many surveys over many decades indicate that a small majority to a large majority (depending on the survey) of potential customers would choose a dealer who makes the process feel less like a scam over a dealer who has a lower price but provides a worse experience.

A slim majority (52%) ranked a positive car-buying experience as more important to them than price. Eighty-five percent of men and 81% of women said they would pay up to 10% more to ensure a fast, transparent, and painless experience, while 15% of men and 19% of women said they would be willing to pay 20% more to ensure a positive customer experience.
https://www.autodealertodaymagazine.com/357768/survey-car-buyers-prioritize-experience-over-price

More people will travel further to find a better buying experience than to find a better price.

...54 percent say that they would buy from a dealership that offered their preferred experience over lowest price. Additionally, 73 percent report that they are willing to drive farther for a great salesperson, versus 65 percent who are willing to drive to get the lowest price.
http://press.autotrader.com/2015-03...rs-Want-Big-Changes-to-the-Car-Buying-Process

Yes, a majority of people would like to negotiate rather than have a fixed price, but they want to change the structure of negotiations (same link as above).
Of those who liked the idea of online deal building, over half, 56 percent, want the ability to start the negotiation on their own terms—preferably online—and 45 percent would like to remain anonymous until they lock in the deal structure.

People would rather do almost any other unpleasant task than go through the dealer experience.
Millennials expressed their disdain for the dealership experience, respondents indicating they would rather clean their homes, wait in line at the DMV or do their taxes instead of visiting a dealership. Nearly a quarter of Gen X respondents, ages 35-44, said they would rather get a root canal than negotiate with a car dealer.
https://www.autodealertodaymagazine...rs-dislike-dealership-experience-survey-finds

Most people don't mind the dealer making money on a sale if the dealer behaves ethically and we don't feel ripped off.
 
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scoopman

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I used the spreadsheet posted by @macchiaz-o. I also had printouts of documents posted here by @hybrid2bev. I spoke politely, but firmly. I also went in on Tuesday morning, when they weren't busy ( I was literally the only customer there). I also let him know that I had pre-approved financing from my credit union, which meant that he would get squat. I also knew that @hybrid2bev had offered to and helped several members here resolve Issues with dealer ignorance/dipshittery of Ford Options. I didn't need to ask him for help, but that was in my back pocket. The whole Optins discussion took an hour and a half, but in the end he got it right. At no time did he say "well this is the deal you get from Ford Options". He figured out that he was not dealing with a low information rube and acted accordingly.
Thanks! On all of this.
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