Delivery in Q1

dbsb3233

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This is the only part of your statement I disagree with. In the US the Federal government neither chose which company to prefer nor to prefer innovators over laggards: if a company makes BEV's they are eligible for the indirect subsidy on the first 200k they make no matter how long it takes them. If a company doesn't make a viable car that people want, they don't get the indirect investment. Early innovators had no advantage over late adopters, other than their ability to capture the market. The government doesn't decide who gets the investment, the free market does. It's a perfect example of government assisting capitalism in a free market in order to ensure everyone's best interests are served. I think Adam Smith would approve of the government assist in this case, because he would accept the scientific facts that burning fossil fuels cannot continue indefinitely. He would understand it is otherwise prohibitively expensive for an existing car company to do without that assistance.

In the case of the Netherlands there is a tax incentive whose expiration was determined long before the Mach E existed. I don't know since I don't live there, but my guess is that there was a movement against indefinitely subsidizing BEV's that got its way, and Ford is late to the party - which IS Ford's fault.
I agree that the US federal tax credit is less arbitrary from a timing aspect. As you say, the timing on that one is dictated by how many units are sold, not some arbitrary date. (It also steps down the phase-out rather than just dramatically cuts it off.) Sounds like some other countries have a hard date though.

The picking of winners and losers via consumer tax subsidy is a broader issue than the timing aspect, of course. But I won't venture there since that's a far more philosophical discussion than fitting for a car forum. ? I was mainly grousing about how some of these arbitrary dates have unfortunate consequences.
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dbsb3233

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His point was very clear that he feels governments are inserting themselves in that timetables for when tax credits are effective or not can drive consumer decisions one way or the other. He doesn't like that artificial or arbitrary deadline to be the deciding factor.
You wanted to instead digress to make a point about Trump/GOP dismantling emission standards, and I pointed out that it doesn't have to do with his comment... but I'm sure you won't let it go, so I will and leave it at that.

By the way, he didn't say they've changed the timetable or that the timetable hasn't been known. He's merely saying that, for example, having a deadline that some tax credit ends at midnight on Dec. 31 is artificial, and he doesn't think that should be what drives the market. That requirement may be known for years and not change, but it's still an artificial factor imposed by the government.
Thanks for your response, Eager. I have that user on ignore so I didn't see the post. I regret now making the original comment about the unfortunate consequences of such policy timing. I should have known better than to try to get anywhere near the govt-policy flame and hope the whole thread didn't catch fire.

My apologies.
 

Cricri67

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Having pre-ordered late I expected nothing before the end of the year. Following Covid-19, I was convinced that we would not be delivered to France before 2021. Which therefore does not change my initial plan, especially since during this time the EU seems to be moving towards a cancellation of the VAT on EVs which will certainly last until the first half of 2021 ...
and during this time, Ford can revise the towing capacity of the Mach e ... !!! Double gain ...
;) ;) ;)
I would definitely be happy to exchange 2 months of waiting with 20% rebate from waiving the VAT!
 

Marcel

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I would definitely be happy to exchange 2 months of waiting with 20% rebate from waiving the VAT!
I can't believe this VAT story, every country already has it own laws/tax regulations with different stimulants, but it would be great.....
 
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timbop

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I'm a liberal. I agree with your politics. PLEASE STOP POSTING IT
 


Billyk24

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EV's are produced to meet the emissions requirements. ----reading the Tesla owners forum, emission are low on totem pole. Technology and performance are on top of the totem pole.
 

Billyk24

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The green deal- has nothing stated in the post obove
 

dbsb3233

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EV's are produced to meet the emissions requirements. ----reading the Tesla owners forum, emission are low on totem pole. Technology and performance are on top of the totem pole.
It's probably some of both. It's fair to say that compliance cars are produced to meet requirements (that's pretty much the definition of "compliance"). But you're totally right about Teslas. They don't need compliance cars since they don't sell any ICE cars.

Ford initially started what became the MME as a compliance car, but changed gears 2 years ago and decided to make it the real thing (a car that they could really promote and make as a mainstay of their lineup, even giving it the revered Mustang name). Same with the upcoming F-150 EV.

Volvo is doing the same with one of their best sellers (the XC40 SUV). There's many other BEVs coming that are no longer just crappy compliance cars. Many manufacturers are launching BEVs that mainstream consumers are actually interested in buying for the reasons you stated -- technology and performance, as well as fuel cost savings, ease of home charging, and other reasons.
 

krafty81

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Remember, even if you order one, you can walk away after the test drive. All dealers have told me that. 500 orders your car, they THINK this is refundable but I am getting that in writing.
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