Departure Times & Preconditioning

[GarageWarrior2023]

I'm hoping someone in this forum has a strong understanding of the departure times and preconditioning features....

I have a departure for the morning when I leave home and am plugged in. I also have a departure set for when I leave work and am NOT plugged in. I have preconditioning set to happen even if not plugged in.

What I've noticed:
When plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see a preconditioning message at the bottom for the screen. visually the vehicle lights are all off and no indication that it's running heating or cooling until you get in and can feel the air
When not plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see the remote start message at the top of the screen as though you remote started it using the app. The lights on the vehicle are on as though it's been remote started so there is a visual queue present.

Can anyone explain if this is normal for a visual in the app and at the vehicle? If it is normal, then why the difference in information and visual based on being plugged in or not? It's almost like it's performing 2 completely different processes. I'm starting to think the preconditioning is not a think when not plugged in and that all it does when not plugged in is precondition the cabin via a remote start.

Any insight and gathered data you have from owning the vehicle for a while would be appreciated. I've only owned my 2 mach-e's for a few weeks.

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[hybrid2bev]

What I've noticed:
When plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see a preconditioning message at the bottom for the screen. visually the vehicle lights are all off and no indication that it's running heating or cooling until you get in and can feel the air
When not plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see the remote start message at the top of the screen as though you remote started it using the app. The lights on the vehicle are on as though it's been remote started so there is a visual queue present.

That’s how it works. Plugged in conditions the battery (if needed) and the cabin. Not plugged in only conditions the cabin (scheduled remote start).

 

[RickMachE]

Yup.

I'd also point out that using a departure time only has real benefit when you need the range and/or it is much colder than optimum battery temp.

Preconditioning heats battery to 59. So, if garage is 60 degrees, you're getting little benefit beyond a scheduled remote start vs hitting the remote start button.

The only time we use a departure time is before a trip, but we don't have a commute.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I'm hoping someone in this forum has a strong understanding of the departure times and preconditioning features....

I have a departure for the morning when I leave home and am plugged in. I also have a departure set for when I leave work and am NOT plugged in. I have preconditioning set to happen even if not plugged in.

What I've noticed:
When plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see a preconditioning message at the bottom for the screen. visually the vehicle lights are all off and no indication that it's running heating or cooling until you get in and can feel the air
When not plugged in - departure time seems to work, but in the app you see the remote start message at the top of the screen as though you remote started it using the app. The lights on the vehicle are on as though it's been remote started so there is a visual queue present.

Can anyone explain if this is normal for a visual in the app and at the vehicle? If it is normal, then why the difference in information and visual based on being plugged in or not? It's almost like it's performing 2 completely different processes. I'm starting to think the preconditioning is not a think when not plugged in and that all it does when not plugged in is precondition the cabin via a remote start.

Any insight and gathered data you have from owning the vehicle for a while would be appreciated. I've only owned my 2 mach-e's for a few weeks.

Yes, that's normal. When you're plugged in it runs the preconditioning routine, which does not activate marker lights and conditions both the battery and the cabin.

When unplugged, it runs the remote start routine which does activate the marker lights, and only conditions the cabin (it does not condition the battery while unplugged). When you are unplugged, there is no functional difference between a "condition while unplugged" and a remote start, it just initiates remote start automatically rather than you having to press the button.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

Thank for all the quick and knowledgeable replies. I really appreciate it. This makes more sense now and I'm glad to have this confirmed as correct behavior for the departure time settings.

Now that it's clear how this works, I have some statements and then a question based on my intended winter usage:
-come winter time (I did this with my last ev and plan to do the same with my Mach-e) I have a 120v 12amp charger that I would use while I'm parked at work. I have a dedicated outlet with dedicated breaker for my reserved parking spot.
-I use this charger when temps were below -15c. which here in Manitoba, Canada is almost the entire winter (gets as cold as -40 on the coldest days).
-On my old EV (2022 Bolt EUV, 65kwh battery) , I would always end up with a very healthy net positive return. it would very depending on how cold it was, but it was always a net positive. This net positive return was even after running the ev for 30 minutes to warm up the cabin before leaving work for the day.

THE QUESTION: Will being plugged in at 120v 12amps cause the EV to run in preconditioning mode instead of just a remote start to warm the cabin? Or is there a minimum requirement for the preconditioning of a level 2 charger? And on top of that, if it DOES do preconditioning on a 120v 12amp, does anyone have specs on how much power it would consume to get the battery to 59f (15c) if it was -30c outside? If preconditioning would eat up more than 10-12kwh then I'd be pretty much net neutral or net negative on my work charging routine.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

Just to be clear, at home I use either the included ford charge at 240v 32amps, or my grizzl-e at 240v 40amps. it's just at work in winter that I additionally use the 120v charger. this is to ensure I don't lose range during the day to battery heating and also to help keep the battery warm by having a charge going to it. it proved very helpful last winter. I do 130km round trip each day, which is all highway driving 100km/h and on a -40c day that uses a fair bit of juice....especially in a snowstorm with headwinds....any extra juice or ensuring no additional loss of range during the day is great for those conditions....

 

[Mach-Lee]

THE QUESTION: Will being plugged in at 120v 12amps cause the EV to run in preconditioning mode instead of just a remote start to warm the cabin? Or is there a minimum requirement for the preconditioning of a level 2 charger? And on top of that, if it DOES do preconditioning on a 120v 12amp, does anyone have specs on how much power it would consume to get the battery to 59f (15c) if it was -30c outside? If preconditioning would eat up more than 10-12kwh then I'd be pretty much net neutral or net negative on my work charging routine.

Ford will not drain the battery to perform battery preconditioning, you are limited by the input power. On 120V you get only 1 kW into the battery. The PTC heater normally takes 5-6 kW, but on 120V it is limited to 1 kW heat output. If you run a departure time, it will try to heat the battery first with 1 kW, and then the cabin with 1 kW, but in my testing I found it didn't get things very warm because there is a 80 minute time limitation on the cycle. Better than nothing, but not by much.

Battery only heats up (∆T) about 3-4ºC on a 120V precondition cycle. So there's no way you're getting it to 15ºC on 120V at -30ºC. You're going to want to precondition on Level 2 at your house before you leave for work, hope the battery retains enough heat through the workday, and then just get a little bit of warming at the end from the departure time. During the day it will only charge the battery, not heat it until the charge target it reached or a departure time is set.

I think you should read my previous cold weather tests for more information about how preconditioning works on the Mach-E: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-mach-e-cold-weather-testing-taking-requests.24393/

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

Ford will not drain the battery to perform battery preconditioning, you are limited by the input power. On 120V you get only 1 kW into the battery. The PTC heater normally takes 5-6 kW, but on 120V it is limited to 1 kW heat output. If you run a departure time, it will try to heat the battery first with 1 kW, and then the cabin with 1 kW, but in my testing I found it didn't get things very warm because there is a 80 minute time limitation on the cycle. Better than nothing, but not by much.

Battery only heats up (∆T) about 3-4ºC on a 120V precondition cycle. So there's no way you're getting it to 15ºC on 120V at -30ºC. You're going to want to precondition on Level 2 at your house before you leave for work, hope the battery retains enough heat through the workday, and then just get a little bit of warming at the end from the departure time. During the day it will only charge the battery, not heat it until the charge target it reached or a departure time is set.

I think you should read my previous cold weather tests for more information about how preconditioning works on the Mach-E: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-mach-e-cold-weather-testing-taking-requests.24393/

Thank you for the detailed response. That 100% answers my question. And thank you for the link to your post, the information you provided in that post is perfect, it's exactly the kind of data I was looking and hoping for. You're awesome!

 

[RickMachE]

Also, in very cold weather, sitting on an icy parking lot, the Ford Mobile Charger may be very unhappy. A handful of posts about that.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

Also, in very cold weather, sitting on an icy parking lot, the Ford Mobile Charger may be very unhappy. A handful of posts about that.

Thanks, definitely a good note for anyone planning to use their factory charger in sub 0 temperatures outside.

I personally don't trust the factory included charges in temperature extremes or to be left on the ground or unused in the cold potentially having their relays freeze. I especially don't like that there's modular plugs that would "walk away" even if you locked your evse to your wheel or other.

When I had my Bolt EUV I kept the factory charge in the garage (heated and cooled) for use when I parked in there. And I have a Grizzl-E outside that works great in all temperature ranges. In winter I park outside unless I've washed a vehicle and am letting it dry off. It's really bad to constantly thaw and freeze vehicles with road salt caked to the bottom.

For my 120v portable solution at work I used a TurboCord Dual 120v/240v. It's the worlds smallest EVSE, I highly recommend it as a portable option since it's so easy to handle and so portable. I kept it in the vehicle in the back seat of my Bolt EUV so it would be warm from Cabin heat by the time I got to work so there was no issues with frozen relays or the unit registering any temperature faults. The TurboCord worked perfectly even at -40c if the charge process was started with the EVSE warm first. I'm going to the same thing with my Mach-E and expect to have no issues this coming winter.

Good note to make is that "Webasto" makes I think ALL these factory chargers, the Chevy included charger, the Ford included charger, even the TurboCord which is factory equipment for some hybrid models. The key on these is to just make sure your evse is not left in extreme heat (triggering an overheat and slowing charging to cool down) or leaving it in freezing temps unused for prolonged periods risking the relays freezing and not working reliably.

That's my 2 cents about temperature extremes and what I've noticed when working with the included charges.

 

[ArthurDOB]

To piggyback on this thread, I have related question: If I set a charging window from 12 a.m. to 6 a.m., will setting an 8 a.m. departure time pull electricity from my L2 charger and run the battery preconditioning routine, or will it only run the automatic remote start routine because it's outside the charging window? I looked but could not find anything about this in the manual.

 

[BMT1071]

To piggyback on this thread, I have related question: If I set a charging window from 12 a.m. to 6 a.m., will setting an 8 a.m. departure time pull electricity from my L2 charger and run the battery preconditioning routine, or will it only run the automatic remote start routine because it's outside the charging window? I looked but could not find anyrhing about this in the manual.

It will precondition outside your charge window.

 

[Mach-Lee]

To piggyback on this thread, I have related question: If I set a charging window from 12 a.m. to 6 a.m., will setting an 8 a.m. departure time pull electricity from my L2 charger and run the battery preconditioning routine, or will it only run the automatic remote start routine because it's outside the charging window? I looked but could not find anyrhing about this in the manual.

It will run the full preconditioning routine between 7-8AM and will draw power from the EVSE. Departure times always have priority over preferred charge times.

 

[Teslaeata]

On subject of pre-conditioning, before a 300mile plus road trip yesterday, and for the first time in 2 years mainly because I gave up on setting PC on the App ever again………..

It worked! Hoorah!
?????????????????

Have they fixed this? Or did I just hit lucky, on my way to buy a lottery ticket in case I’m on a lucky streak?

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