Do we have unrealistic expectations?

[RSH]

Just reading the various posts and seeing topics that keep coming up that indicate expectations aren't matching reality..... So, QUESTIONS for group discussion (this is a NO JUDGMENT ZONE PLEASE....):

How many people took their ICE vehicle to any gas station, regardless of brand, stuck the fuel pump nozzle in their car and walked away while it fueled up? Or, were there credit cards and rewards programs to enter into the pump before you could fuel up and get the lowest price?

Why do we suddenly think an EV (or company) is broken because you can't plug it in to every brand charging station and walk away, automatically getting the lowest price?

How many times did you pop the hood on your ICE vehicle by hitting a button on your key fob? Why do we suddenly think the front hood should act differently because it's a storage space instead of an engine--but still subject to the same laws of physics and safety issues associated with ensuring it doesn't accidentally pop open when the vehicle is moving?

Tesla says their car is "full self driving", but it's not--and they get a pass. Ford says the MME has "Co-Pilot 360 Advanced Driver Assistance", and yet we jump all over them because the car doesn't drive itself perfectly in every situation, including ones that Ford specifically says it wasn't designed to handle, and tells you to put your hands on the wheel to stay in control?

I'm just wondering if our expectations exceed what is currently possible, and why we lack patience while one of the oldest legacy automobile manufacturers attempts to completely change their business model, products and services to adapt to the future, and we think that can happen in a week?

I feel like a little more patience with the infrastructure and transition to a different powertrain might help us achieve some EV Zen. You may return to your regularly scheduled forum threads.... ???

I am crazy about my MME. I think it's a well built car with looks to match.

That being said, my expectations were set by Ford. Ford told me about the features, such as PAAK, through their advertisement. Ford backed up the expectation to use PAAK by only providing one fob. They advertised the frunk showing a "frontgate". Based on the expectations Ford set, I expect the PAAK to work almost all the time. Not working and using the code should be rare exceptions. Based on the expectations Ford set, I expect to be able to close the frunk once it is open, not avoid using the frunk because it is too hard to close. I expect to go to EA charge stations and have them work.

The expectations that Ford set were easy to believe. After all, other cars have phone as a key and other cars have frunks. Ford had the benefit of learning from others since they were not the first.

So, I think the real question is: has Ford delivered on the expectations they set? In my opinion, the answer is "yes, but". The expectations on PAAK are met for me approximately 75% of the time. The frunk closure is difficult on some MME's and not difficult onothers. On mine it is difficult. But, Ford is listening and working to fully meet the expectations they set. Within two months of my ownership, Ford has come out with a fix for the PAAK. I took advantage of this fix by taking my MME to the dealership yesterday. I will play with it more today. Ford acknowledged the frunk closure with a bulletin to the dealerships, so the dealership lubricated the frunk latch and confirmed that, for some MME's, more force is needed. And overall, if you go to Electrify America stations, you're going to get a station that works.
To me, Ford set high expectations and is working to meet expectations. Hearing from owners with concerns isn't being negative for the most part. I think owners are sharing experiences, seeing if they are the only ones experiencing something falling short of expectations, and learning from others. And I think Ford is learning from us - that's why they joined the site.
I am excited about my purchase, and I haven't heard anything from owners that makes me think others regret theirs.

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[gafear]

@OnlyPen

@gafear so Ford should follow in Tesla's footsteps regarding plug and charge?

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp36839879/customer-sues-tesla-over-supercharger-fees/

Just curious why you're sugarcoating Tesla's approach to charging?

Seriously, are you comparing anecdotal evidence to the issues with the charging on the Mach E?

Of course no system is perfect, Ford and EA's won't be as well, my point is the current one is behind the bar. Whether you like it or not Tesla and the supercharger network set a bar in terms of plug and play and speed. It doesn't matter if took them 1 or 10 years, the bar is set to what exists today.

Ford (and EA) are behind the bar, therefore as a customer I'm disappointed in that dimension.

I bought a MME not a Tesla, so as a Ford customer i can complain on the things they have below the bar, example:
- Design flaws like the frunk, the f*ING buzzing noise from the driver Dashboard
- PAAK not working 100% of the time. Yes, if you pay for a feature you should expect it to work 100% and not some bull* excuse that "oh this is an OTA improvement later in the year"

 

[gafear]

The Mach E and P&C are quite literally 1.0. It took Tesla a decade to get their charging where it is, and they have a closed system which means they control BOTH sides of the equation. EA alone has FOUR DIFFERENT manufacturers of their chargers, and JUST RELEASED v1.0 of P&C within the last six months.

I get that you love Tesla but don't understand why you're deliberately being obtuse about the 2 manufacturers being at 2 different points in the product development life cycle.

Why it matters that it is V1? The car was launched now not 10 years ago

Again, it doesn't matter if it is a complex problem, if you advertise and sell the plug and charge, it should work. Period.

"oh there are so many manufacturers, integrations", pay smart people to solve this problem and only advertise it when you are ready. This whole "Tesla" mentality of overpromissing and pushing deadlines further is exactly the reason why I didn't buy a Tesla and bought a Ford

 

[BalsaDust]

My expectations are non existing, I have ordered a Premium AWDx and am currently awaiting delivery.
I was originally going to order as soon as they were announce but decided to wait since I wanted to see one in person before actually putting some money down.
After an impromptu visit to my local Ford dealer, I spotted a Mach-E on the showroom floor. The salesman said this was the only one available and orders would be several months before they are delivered.
My requirements for a vehicle are a flat folding rear seat since i need the storage space for my hobbies, and of course I needed good performance.
Its been 45 years since my first Mustang, a 68' fastback 390 (Yes highland green) and the prospect of finally owning another Mustang was weighing heavily on the purchase. When the salesperson handed me the keys for the demo, all he said was bring it back in one piece, I returned with the biggest smile anyone has ever seen on my face.
Having read this forum and others I can safely say there is a good mix of likes and dislikes, which of course is normal in todays world.
Going back to some of the original posts here I see enthusiasm for a new vehicle and gradually changing to dissent and despair about owning an "untested" or "unreliable" vehicle.
None of the posts I have read will change my mind about my expected new Mustang and I know that Ford will do right by its customers albeit slowly at first.

My apologies for the long winded response but I need to get this off my chest,

Tony
Waiting eagerly for my Star White Premium AWD X

 

[OlyPen]

I based on the expectations Ford set, I expect the PAAK to work almost all the time.

To me, Ford set high expectations and is working to meet expectations. Hearing from owners with concerns isn't being negative for the most part.

PAAK is definitely an issue Ford needs to get right. They set a clear expectation and haven't delivered. Yet. They should give a free second key fob to owners to make up for it as a customer service gesture to early adopters until it works flawlessly for everyone with a modern smartphone running the most recent operating systems (current and one back). There should be no expectation that a 7 year old smartphone running iOS 4.28.2 should work. ?

The frunk hardware issue for some vehicles is frustrating and needs a mechanical fix for those vehicles, like any mechanical issue with vehicles. Should they provide a release button in the app? Probably. Will someone end up popping open the frunk, get in their vehicle and start driving without opening the frunk fully to reclose it and get in a accident as a result? Yes. So, Ford would also need to include a failsafe to prevent operation of the vehicle if the frunk is unlatched (intentionally or accidentally) by the app on the phone.

Does plug and charge work as advertised? Yes (I get that there have been technical glitches with charging stations... But I've also gone to gas stations and had pumps that didn't work. Tesla has also had charging stations that didn't work.)

Should Ford negotiate lower rates with charging networks, and/or integrate member "cards" into the FordPass wallet for plug and charge at member rates? That'd be great, and I think they're working on it. Should MME owners be organizing petitions and form letters to escalate the issue to CEOs at this point? It might be a bit early for that approach.

 

[OlyPen]

I bought a MME not a Tesla, so as a Ford customer i can complain on the things they have below the bar, example:
- Design flaws like the frunk, the f*ING buzzing noise from the driver Dashboard
- PAAK not working 100% of the time. Yes, if you pay for a feature you should expect it to work 100% and not some bull* excuse that "oh this is an OTA improvement later in the year"

So far, plug and charge works for me as advertised at EA chargers. Yes, I've seen anecdotal reports that it hasn't worked for everyone. Ford never promised that plug and charge would recognize this party member rates. Only that you could conveniently plug in at an EA station and be billed by Ford for kWh used without needing to open an app. EA members have to pay in advance to reload their account (maybe I don't want to do that as I'd like to keep the money in my bank account and not EA's). So the FordPass plug and charge currently works identically as any other "pay for only what you use" approach and is more convenient.

Should Ford negotiate lower rates? Yes. Does Tesla honor any lower member rates at non-Tesla charging stations? No. Does Tesla plug and charge at any non-Tesla charging station? No.

PAAK? Absolutely that's a failure on Ford's part and they should step up and offer a free second key fob to early adopters until they get it working flawlessly (interacts with car every time and doesn't drain phone battery). Opening the car door and starting it should always work. Period.

 

[Scrannel]

OK, let's clear up the Tesla charging infrastructure. When they first began setting it up they offered that same (potential) network to any car company that would go EV and were laughed at. That guy who's suing Tesla over "free charging" is suing them because once a car is charged, Tesla (and owners) want you to move your car so someone else can charge. In other words, it's just sitting there being billed "overage" time. In Europe -- because Tesla uses the CCS protocol -- other brands can use their chargers and in some countries Tesla is moving or has moved to allow. As far as EA goes, unquestionably, this charging network needs a "mothership" as even VW (watching a test of the iv4) cannot get it to work reliably -- and they built the damned thing.

My wife was keen to get a Mach E until she realized the ground clearance was too low. Now, she's interested in the F150. But... I can pretty much guess that unless the charging becomes Tesla-simple, she's going to hit a wall.

 

[OlyPen]

OK, let's clear up the Tesla charging infrastructure. When they first began setting it up they offered that same (potential) network to any car company that would go EV and were laughed at. That guy who's suing Tesla over "free charging" is suing them because once a car is charged, Tesla (and owners) want you to move your car so someone else can charge. In other words, it's just sitting there being billed "overage" time. In Europe -- because Tesla uses the CCS protocol -- other brands can use their chargers and in some countries Tesla is moving or has moved to allow. As far as EA goes, unquestionably, this charging network needs a "mothership" as even VW (watching a test of the iv4) cannot get it to work reliably -- and they built the damned thing.

My wife was keen to get a Mach E until she realized the ground clearance was too low. Now, she's interested in the F150. But... I can pretty much guess that unless the charging becomes Tesla-simple, she's going to hit a wall.

The MME ground clearance hasn't been an issue at all for me, and I live in a rural area with "less than well maintained" gravel roads that can challenge any vehicle's suspension. I don't truly off road it, but it's not designed for that. And I'm not sure how it would do in deeper soft snow.

 

[TRP]

Tesla charge plug vs What Ford uses (CCS? I'm not sure of terminology....newbie) = Betamax vs VHS

Back in the day this was a huge debate. Which version would win (VHS), which was better (Beta).

What do I know tho, I haven't driven a MME and won't take delivery of mine till sometime next week ?‍

I'm happy with my decision and am looking forward to it.



P.S. Forums are full of complainers and naysayers

 

[OlyPen]

Tesla charge plug vs What Ford uses (CCS? I'm not sure of terminology....newbie) = Betamax vs VHS

Back in the day this was a huge debate. Which version would win (VHS), which was better (Beta).

What do I know tho, I haven't driven a MME and won't take delivery of mine till sometime next week ?‍

I'm happy with my decision and am looking forward to it.



P.S. Forums are full of complainers and naysayers

I love the car, and I'm pretty patient when it comes to working out bugs and technical glitches. I've come to expect them as part of our complicated modern society... And as a business owner myself, I understand the complexities of trying to work with other forces beyond your control to deliver a perfect experience....

Congrats on yours! It's been pretty typical for the cars to arrive earlier than expected (or noted in the tracking system) and take dealers by surprise. Let us know how it goes when you get yours!

 

[Jimrpa]

Maybe I had different expectations, but my Mustang Mach E has exceeded them. Of course, there are individual details I can quibble with (two-tone steering wheel, degrees of seat motion, etc.) but the car never fails to impress me!

 

[TRP]

I love the car, and I'm pretty patient when it comes to working out bugs and technical glitches. I've come to expect them as part of our complicated modern society... And as a business owner myself, I understand the complexities of trying to work with other forces beyond your control to deliver a perfect experience....

Congrats on yours! It's been pretty typical for the cars to arrive earlier than expected (or noted in the tracking system) and take dealers by surprise. Let us know how it goes when you get yours!

I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. Just started looking in to ordering and stumbled upon a demo for sale and couldn't pass up the deal. My first experience in a MME will be a 700ish mile road trip from Iowa back down to Tennessee. Talk about a learning curve

 

[TruWrecks]

Personally I try not to be negative even when something is frustrating me. We are all early adopters, like it or not. EVs are not ready for the masses and we are here to help companies get their skills to that level.

The Mach-E is the best EV I have driven and it is my second purchased. On the hardware side it is so well built I have nothing but kudos and praise.

Software is another story. What works is pretty good but far from great. Ford needs to restructure a bit and bring their software developers into one group so they can better collaborate. It is very clear that different departments made different parts of the onboard UI. The navigation and charging software don't communicate very well. The navigation should realize when the car is plugged into a charger.

Thing like this and PaC are frustrating but are fixable with software updates.

 

[OlyPen]

I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. Just started looking in to ordering and stumbled upon a demo for sale and couldn't pass up the deal. My first experience in a MME will be a 700ish mile road trip from Iowa back down to Tennessee. Talk about a learning curve

Try ABRP (A Better Route Planner) to put the route together (account is free to save it, so you can access it later). You enter the type of vehicle, and enter "departure times" from various stops along the way if needed. It'll calculate the route, including all charging stops and recommended charging amounts at each stop to minimize time spent charging.

Then, save the completed route and share it with Google Maps in your phone when you're ready to leave. That way, you can use Car Play or Android Auto in the car for nav. The Ford's nav has some drawbacks to it vs ABRP, and is an ok fallback if needed to find charging stations... But that hack works really since ABRP is not available in Car Play or Android Auto, so the transfer over to Google Maps works wonders, retaining the route specifics but allowing Google Maps to do the realtime work of traffic navigation etc. in your MME display.

 

[Mickey the T]

The tone of this forum has definitely changed since the cars started getting delivered. Before then it was about finding scraps of information and lots of enthusiasm. It seems to have devolved into a complaint department since then.

I agree with this comment, which is why I enjoyed the "cold feet" thread on the reservations/purchasing sub-forum. As someone waiting for a car, it was really nice to see the overwhelming responses of how the vast majority really love their car.

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