Extended Range battery shortage?

[Blinkin]

But in many places on this forum is it stated that you can make changes without loosing your place in that virtual line untill the car is schedule for production.

Right, that's why I suspect the dealer is wrong. He changed his order relatively late, so Ford moves his "original" order to the back of the queue and assigns him a different VIN more aligned with his original delivery target. The dealer either isn't told or doesn't bother to check if the VIN associated with the order has changed, so he (the customer) gets bad information.

Dealers are used to selling ICE cars from stock, rather than selling EVs from pre-order. We expected them to struggle with this a bit and I think that's what's happening here.

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[Shayne]

That’s correct. VIN is assigned at scheduling.

So entered into the main system (plant)? That was along time ago and the date of production I was given months ago appears to have only slide a couple of weeks. Pretty good Ford; stay safe.

I live in Canada reservation and order dates similar has yours, which places us roughly in the middle of the pack after taking out the 30% GT reservatrion/order, Premium SR AWD and no build date yet so it has nothing to do with the battery size, and yes it's a mystery to me to that customers that reserved/ordered later then us wether they are in the US, Canada or even UK/EU already have a build date and VIN #. The only thing we can do is be patient has we can't do anything to change that. Yes I would like Ford or my dealer to communicate to me the good news regarding a built date but I still expect a delivery in March or April which was my evaluation since the beginning.

Ask your dealer how many Mach orders he has. May solve a mystery. Taking possession in the spring does not really have a huge down side if you can wait a bit. Won't be waxing mine until about that time; even if I get it earlier. Things could even get weirder and there are no deliveries to anyone yet.

 

[Deleted member 367]

I've been chasing my dealer to find out why others with higher/later reservation numbers than mine are getting their cars scheduled for production and I'm not.

The dealer contacted me today to say that Ford told them there was a shortage of extended range batteries for California and it's unlikely that my car (Premium AWD extended range) will be scheduled for production before March 2021.

I'm perplexed. Does this mean there really is a shortage and Ford is trying to spread too little butter over too much bread. E.g., non domestic orders are being slotted in now and there never really was any intent for "first come, first serve"?

I can understand that Canada and Europe want their cars too, which is completely fair.

What's interesting is that my dealer says Ford has not exactly covered themselves with glory with regards to communications, nor have they been straightforward and forthcoming regarding the meaning (or more accurately not) of the reservation and ordering process. Something that's been said on this forum for months now.

Not surprising. I've been yacking all along.

I've been chasing my dealer to find out why others with higher/later reservation numbers than mine are getting their cars scheduled for production and I'm not.

The dealer contacted me today to say that Ford told them there was a shortage of extended range batteries for California and it's unlikely that my car (Premium AWD extended range) will be scheduled for production before March 2021.

I'm perplexed. Does this mean there really is a shortage and Ford is trying to spread too little butter over too much bread. E.g., non domestic orders are being slotted in now and there never really was any intent for "first come, first serve"?

I can understand that Canada and Europe want their cars too, which is completely fair.

What's interesting is that my dealer says Ford has not exactly covered themselves with glory with regards to communications, nor have they been straightforward and forthcoming regarding the meaning (or more accurately not) of the reservation and ordering process. Something that's been said on this forum for months now.

Not surprising. That's what I have been yacking all along, and why I cancelled my reservation months ago. Sorry to be negative, but welcome to Ford's PR trolling and exchuses. Still, I expect the eMustang will be a very good car.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

So entered into the main system (plant)? That was along time ago and the date of production I was given months ago appears to have only slide a couple of weeks. Pretty good Ford; stay safe.

Ask your dealer how many Mach orders he has. May solve a mystery. Taking possession in the spring does not really have a huge down side if you can wait a bit. Won't be waxing mine until about that time; even if I get it earlier. Things could even get weirder and there are no deliveries to anyone yet.

The latest info I have about the dealer number of order they have is 52, and that they had 2 orders in production in november I think and I guess these are early reservation/order, and they told me they expect their demo only in January

 

[Shayne]

The latest info I have about the dealer number of order they have is 52, and that they had 2 orders in production in november I think and I guess these are early reservation/order, and they told me they expect their demo only in January

Mystery solved; you can answer your own question. My dealer, who incurred the cost to EV certify, has one order; from what I understand.

 

[dbsb3233]

Too me this implies that the mythical rule about needing to cancel the original order as part to change Mach drop is essentially made up with no basis in facts.

Actually it was the opposite -- the Machdrop reps told customers NOT to have their dealer cancel their original order... YET. Until after their Machdrop got entered into WBDO and confirmed.

But then they wanted such duplicate orders cleaned up after that. They told dealers to clean up the duplicates, and warned them not to purposely keep a 2nd order open that customers had no intention of buying just as a ruse to get their hands on one for inventory stock.

Did that always happen?... no. Will some dealers that did that get punished with reduced future allocations of prime vehicles?... possibly. Ford doesn't want dealers randomly getting lot inventory before reservation and order customers get theirs. For good reason. But some will probably slip through the cracks and get away with it anyway.

 

[shutterbug]

Actually it was the opposite -- the Machdrop reps told customers NOT to have their dealer cancel their original order... YET. Until after their Machdrop got entered into WBDO and confirmed.

Why would ford need to depend on customers to cancel order which were explicitly conversions? It would literally take 5 minutes to write a query to identify duplicate orders. In my case and more than a few others, both Ford and dealers had ample opportunity to cancel the original order, and yet have not. Demonstrates pretty obvious lack of motivation for both.

But then they wanted such duplicate orders cleaned up after that. They told dealers to clean up the duplicates, and warned them not to purposely keep a 2nd order open that customers had no intention of buying just as a ruse to get their hands on one for inventory stock.

They did?! You know this because some random guy said that on the internet? Or have you actually seen communication from Ford to dealers?

Did that always happen?... no. Will some dealers that did that get punished with reduced future allocations of prime vehicles?... possibly. Ford doesn't want dealers randomly getting lot inventory before reservation and order customers get theirs. For good reason. But some will probably slip through the cracks and get away with it anyway.

The real question is did that happen in majority of cases? The answer is a resounding no! Will Ford penalize dealers who make lots of money for them, and have a track record attracting "premium vehicle" buyers? I suspect not. Ford makes money by selling vehicles through dealers, not by coming up with weird byzantine rules that benefit neither Ford nor the dealers. Until ford has a way to sell direct, they need dealers' goodwill, and they need profitable dealers to stay profitable.

 

[dbsb3233]

Why would ford need to depend on customers to cancel order which were explicitly conversions? It would literally take 5 minutes to write a query to identify duplicate orders. In my case and more than a few others, both Ford and dealers had ample opportunity to cancel the original order, and yet have not. Demonstrates pretty obvious lack of motivation for both.


They did?! You know this because some random guy said that on the internet? Or have you actually seen communication from Ford to dealers?


The real question is did that happen in majority of cases? The answer is a resounding no! Will Ford penalize dealers who make lots of money for them, and have a track record attracting "premium vehicle" buyers? I suspect not. Ford makes money by selling vehicles through dealers, not by coming up with weird byzantine rules that benefit neither Ford nor the dealers. Until ford has a way to sell direct, they need dealers' goodwill, and they need profitable dealers to stay profitable.

No, not depend on customers to do it. Simply warn them NOT to cancel before their Machdrop got into WBDO. As some would otherwise logically do after just placing an order for a 2nd $60k car. The onus was on dealers to clean up duplicates after they were both in the system.

Ford couldn't automatically delete them because some people (albeit rarely) actually wanted to buy 2 cars. That's the max Ford allows to have on order from the same retail customer. But they're supposed to be REAL orders with intent to buy. And that's on dealers to work with customers to determine.

I know this because my dealer told me Ford sent out just such a communication when I offered him to leave my order open for an inventory vehicle if he wanted. A few others have noted their dealer got the same communication. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. Doesn't really hurt customers with duplicate orders, just dealers.

Regarding your last paragraph, you're leaving out the good will for potential customers too. And of those that could get pissed off by having a June build date and hearing that random people off the street were able to walk in and buy one off the lot in January from ruse duplicate cancellations. That's the whole point of having reservation and order priority. Getting a reputation for being unfair can cost you more customers than the few lucky people off the street that walked in and snagged an intentionally late cancellation. Not to mention that it's just not right or fair.

But having said all that... Might dealers get away with it without punishment in this thoroughly screwed up year?... Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[dbsb3233]

To elaborate a bit further... If Ford allows duplicate orders of hot new waitlist vehicles that intentionally cancel late just to get some in lot inventory (to add ADM to), it's the equivalent of scalping. And it would become common practice. The dealer could come to me and say "Hey Tim, I'll give you $500 in extras if you order a 2nd one and cancel it the day it arrives". So he can then sell it for $3000 more to someone willing to get one 6 months before getting in line. If Ford were ok with that practice, dealers would start exploiting it.

But obviously they're not ok with it, nor should they be. This is their first reservation list vehicle, but not their last. They need to try and prevent that practice before it starts.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Mystery solved; you can answer your own question. My dealer, who incurred the cost to EV certify, has one order; from what I understand.

That sound's odd to me that a dealer with many orders is threaten worst with his customer orders then a dealer with just a few. Doesn't make sense, but nothing make sense to me right now how production scheduling is done.

 

[shutterbug]

Ford couldn't automatically delete them because some people (albeit rarely) actually wanted to buy 2 cars. That's the max Ford allows to have on order from the same retail customer. But they're supposed to be REAL orders with intent to buy. And that's on dealers to work with customers to determine.

Rarely is the key word. My order form for Mach drop explicitly stated "Move to First Edition" and included my original order number. There was no ambiguity. Logically, one might assume that nearly all who wanted two cars already had two orders, and one of those original orders did get cancelled.

I know this because my dealer told me Ford sent out just such a communication when I offered him to leave my order open for an inventory vehicle if he wanted. A few others have noted their dealer got the same communication. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. Doesn't really hurt customers with duplicate orders, just dealers.

Who at your dealer. If it was one of the sales guys, it's more than likely they lied, or misunderstood, or just made stuff up. Car salesmen start out ignorant and loose ground every day.

Regarding your last paragraph, you're leaving out the good will for potential customers too. And of those that could get pissed off by having a June build date and hearing that random people off the street were able to walk in and buy one off the lot in January from ruse duplicate cancellations. That's the whole point of having reservation and order priority. Getting a reputation for being unfair can cost you more customers than the few lucky people off the street that walked in and snagged an intentionally late cancellation. Not to mention that it's just not right or fair.

How about this scenario. Salesman calls one of those people and asks: Do you want to wait till June or you you can have one today in a different shade of gray? Salesmen are generally lazy, and would rather go after someone already motivated to buy than leave it on the lot waiting for a walk on and risk that one of the other salesmen snags the sale and commission. And exactly when did fairness become part of sales technique?

If Ford allows duplicate orders of hot new waitlist vehicles that intentionally cancel late just to get some in lot inventory (to add ADM to), it's the equivalent of scalping. And it would become common practice. The dealer could come to me and say "Hey Tim, I'll give you $500 in extras if you order a 2nd one and cancel it the day it arrives". So he can then sell it for $3000 more to someone willing to get one 6 months before getting in line. If Ford were ok with that practice, dealers would start exploiting it.

In the first place Ford "allows" this because they have no way of stopping it. Second, this is the rule of supply and demand. If a dealer thinks he can get away with ADM, he will use it. Third, you are giving the dealers too much credit. Most of them don't think that far in advance. Early on a few of them floated ADM on MME orders, and most dropped the idea, once they realized that they would simply lose the sale to a different dealer.

 

[Shayne]

That sound's odd to me that a dealer with many orders is threaten worst with his customer orders then a dealer with just a few. Doesn't make sense, but nothing make sense to me right now how production scheduling is done.

If you find giving your dealer 52 units and giving another dealer none when both have invested into accelerating a sustainable future I will not be able to make any sense of it for you. Not odd for me; fair is the word I would use for it. Not about you anyway, it is about Fords dealers. their clients. I am sure your dealer understands others need to survive.

 

[dbsb3233]

Rarely is the key word. My order form for Mach drop explicitly stated "Move to First Edition" and included my original order number. There was no ambiguity. Logically, one might assume that nearly all who wanted two cars already had two orders, and one of those original orders did get cancelled.

There may not have been ambiguity on your order, but you're just one customer. They had many. Infrequent as 2 intentional orders may be, they can't blanketly assume no one wanted 2 cars, and automatically cancel the 1st.

Moreover, the whole point of having dealers is to be that interface with the customers. That's their job, and their responsibility. Ford customers (in the US) buy cars from dealerships, not from Ford.

Now, if one wants to say that MachDrop messed up that paradigm, they wouldn't get any argument from me. In fact I'd be first in line to say how screwed up it was. They never should have done MachDrop, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it confused those lines of dealer vs manufacturer. Nonetheless, the original orders were still entirely the dealer's domain to clean up.

Who at your dealer. If it was one of the sales guys, it's more than likely they lied, or misunderstood, or just made stuff up. Car salesmen start out ignorant and loose ground every day.

The GM. Don't want to believe it, fine. I don't care. I do believe it. And it also makes perfect sense.

How about this scenario. Salesman calls one of those people and asks: Do you want to wait till June or you you can have one today in a different shade of gray? Salesmen are generally lazy, and would rather go after someone already motivated to buy than leave it on the lot waiting for a walk on and risk that one of the other salesmen snags the sale and commission. And exactly when did fairness become part of sales technique?

In the first place Ford "allows" this because they have no way of stopping it. Second, this is the rule of supply and demand. If a dealer thinks he can get away with ADM, he will use it. Third, you are giving the dealers too much credit. Most of them don't think that far in advance. Early on a few of them floated ADM on MME orders, and most dropped the idea, once they realized that they would simply lose the sale to a different dealer.

You've missed the whole point. I never said the dealers wouldn't do it if allowed, I said Ford doesn't want it happening. In fact I told you that I think some dealers WOULD do it if Ford allowed them to get away with it.

 

[malba2366]

To elaborate a bit further... If Ford allows duplicate orders of hot new waitlist vehicles that intentionally cancel late just to get some in lot inventory (to add ADM to), it's the equivalent of scalping. And it would become common practice. The dealer could come to me and say "Hey Tim, I'll give you $500 in extras if you order a 2nd one and cancel it the day it arrives". So he can then sell it for $3000 more to someone willing to get one 6 months before getting in line. If Ford were ok with that practice, dealers would start exploiting it.

But obviously they're not ok with it, nor should they be. This is their first reservation list vehicle, but not their last. They need to try and prevent that practice before it starts.

If the dealer wants to keep the car they will. There is nothing Ford can do about it..all the dealer has to say is that the customer told us they don't want the car after it already arrived. As long as the dealer refunds the deposit, the customer won't complain and Ford won't know. I doubt many dealers would find strangers to place shadow orders, but they may have their employees do so. I would imagine this sort of thing will be much more prevalent with the Bronco than the Mach E.

Ford is probably complicitly allowing this to throw the dealers a bone, more so with the Bronco than the Mach E. If they didn't want this to occur, very simply they could allow cancellation through their website/customer service hotlines.

There is probably also some sort of dealer allocation scheme going on in the background that is not publicized. They had all the dealers make investments in charging and training, and probably promised each dealer a certain number of vehicles the first year.

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