Ford Announces EV and Hybrid Program & Plant Updates

[Mach1E]

More Perfect Union did a piece on BlueOval City this week. Puts to perspective the long-term positive change in the lives of folks in west Tennessee are having around it's construction.

It’s an advertisement about how happy people are when you give them a lot of extra money.

I wonder what video they put together about how sad people are when the union factories shut down and move out of the country. I’m going to guess the people are very sad.

I get it, if I was in a union, I’d be a very happy worker too and go online whenever possible to try to convince people it’s a good thing.

And it’s a GREAT thing for people in the unions. It just costs everyone else money.

Like the video states though, the only thing that made this happen is billions of dollars of taxpayer money to make it feasible.

Without that, US union manufacturing is completely uncompetitive in the global market.

It’s great if you’re a union worker getting paid more because of the tax payer dollars. It’s bad if you’re a consumer paying more for the products or a taxpayer footing the bill.

These threads typically let us know which side of the coin people land on.

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[DennisD]

It’s an advertisement about how happy people are when you give them a lot of extra money.

I wonder what video they put together about how sad people are when the union factories shut down and move out of the country. I’m going to guess the people are very sad.

I get it, if I was in a union, I’d be a very happy worker too and go online whenever possible to try to convince people it’s a good thing.

And it’s a GREAT thing for people in the unions. It just costs everyone else money.

Like the video states though, the only thing that made this happen is billions of dollars of taxpayer money to make it feasible.

Without that, US union manufacturing is completely uncompetitive in the global market.

It’s great if you’re a union worker getting paid more because of the tax payer dollars. It’s bad if you’re a consumer paying more for the products or a taxpayer footing the bill.

These threads typically let us know which side of the coin people land on.

Unions are the entities that changed working conditions, wages and the like to be sustainable for the "little guy".

Without the unions, the owners aka "the fat cat" typically took much of the profit and placed it in their own pocket.

If you are content with slave labor, then go ahead and rail against an organization that protects the little guy and feeds the fat cats.

Sure, we all want "cheaper" stuff but more times than not it comes with problems that society doesn't realize until things go south.

While I may agree with you that unions can place themselves in the corner with pushing too hard, just imagine what this country would look like if we had no protections against greed in place.

It would be a true two class society. I guess if you are on the upper deck of the Titanic, life is good.

 

[Mach1E]

Unions are the entities that changed working conditions, wages and the like to be sustainable for the "little guy".

Without the unions, the owners aka "the fat cat" typically took much of the profit and placed it in their own pocket.

If you are content with slave labor, then go ahead and rail against an organization that protects the little guy and feeds the fat cats.

Sure, we all want "cheaper" stuff but more times than not it comes with problems that society doesn't realize until things go south.

While I may agree with you that unions can place themselves in the corner with pushing too hard, just imagine what this country would look like if we had no protections against greed in place.

It would be a true two class society. I guess if you are on the upper deck of the Titanic, life is good.

A wonderful argument for their place in society and the help they did…… 75-100 years ago. And I appreciate that.

But today? Non-union states and factories seem to be doing just fine.

Go tour the BMW plant in Spartanburg, SC. I did. It’s doing great and no union needed.

Feel free to tour Flint, Michigan and see what it’s like when plants shut down.

Just because they helped us a century ago, doesn’t mean we still need them today. Workers have rights and and protected at a State and Federal level now……. Making unions obsolete.

Unions did such a good job protecting workers rights that we don’t need them anymore. The only reason they even still exist is through lots of strong arming and basically blackmail.

 

[DennisD]

A wonderful argument for their place in society and the help they did…… 75-100 years ago. And I appreciate that.

But today? Non-union states and factories seem to be doing just fine.

Go tour the BMW plant in Spartanburg, SC. I did. It’s doing great and no union needed.

Feel free to tour Flint, Michigan and see what it’s like when plants shut down.

Just because they helped us a century ago, doesn’t mean we still need them today. Workers have rights and and protected at a State and Federal level now……. Making unions obsolete.

Unions did such a good job protecting workers rights that we don’t need them anymore. The only reason they even still exist is through lots of strong arming and basically blackmail.

The Union Jobs lifted up the non Union jobs and they are products of previous blood and sweat.

While I am all for Capitalism, greed is the driving force. If we decapitate ALL of the unions, I am quite confident we will be like we were pre Union era. Correct that, I am sure we would return to pre Union era practices.

Once you start to chip away the things the Unions have worked so hard to get, you have to start from scratch.

But hey, if you can get your car for a few dollars cheaper then I am sure you can sleep well knowing that a teenager may be building that someday while they skip School and get pennies on the dollar.

 

[Snakebitten]

I find the Union debate the same trap as so many debates.
I'm supposed to declare an either/or.

Union Good
Union Bad

Unions are both.
Government are both
Capitalism is both
EV are both

I'm both

 

[johnnycombo]

Sorry, but what exactly does a shrimp company in India have to do with the topic at hand?

If you can find some horrible things that a non-union car manufacturing plant inside the US did, maybe that would help your argument?

It's about the anti worker comment, what you would get if there were no workers rights and no regulations is what you see in India!

And it's a fact that having Union shops and factories drive the standard of living up for all workers even in non union work places.

And guess what? Your Mach E is union built.
https://fordauthority.com/2023/04/ford-mustang-mach-e-plant-workers-win-pay-increase/

 

[luckie]

And if you want to experience what it is like working slave wages, just consider your local US car dealership where every single salesperson is expected to work in-person on the lot 60hours/week and be available on call another 20hrs/week (on their own phone of course) AND their hourly pay is literally $0/hour. They only get a ~$400 commission for each vehicle sold and get less than one "up" (a customer they are permitted to approach) per day. And that commission can be reduced without warning or reason, if the boss just decides to do so at pay period.

To avoid the fact they are breaking minimum wage laws, the dealership pays them out of the "bucket", they loan them money at the start of each pay period and the salesperson has to pay the loan back by the end of it, or get fired.

There are many "Jobs" in the US that are like this. So "well, just quit" does not really lead to a solution. Those of us who do not have jobs like that, and do not experience a life like that, are very grateful every day.

 

[DennisD]

And if you want to experience what it is like working slave wages, just consider your local US car dealership where every single salesperson is expected to work in-person on the lot 60hours/week and be available on call another 20hrs/week (on their own phone of course) AND their hourly pay is literally $0/hour. They only get a ~$400 commission for each vehicle sold and get less than one "up" (a customer they are permitted to approach) per day. And that commission can be reduced without warning or reason, if the boss just decides to do so at pay period.

To avoid the fact they are breaking minimum wage laws, the dealership pays them out of the "bucket", they loan them money at the start of each pay period and the salesperson has to pay the loan back by the end of it, or get fired.

There are many "Jobs" in the US that are like this. So "well, just quit" does not really lead to a solution. Those of us who do not have jobs like that, and do not experience a life like that, are very grateful every day.

Totally agree. Many of those that think "Union Jobs" are overpriced are at many times getting paid quite well themselves and they think everyone else should just STFU and be satisfied with what they have/get and to hell with anyone wanting better working conditions.

It drives me crazy how some people are so shortsighted and they fail to learn from past mistakes of how it was before many of the things they are complaining about.

History repeats itself for a reason. People assume that things will stay "good" once they are good and fail to understand the greed that is instilled in our DNA and things can go sideways if there are no guard rails to keep us in check.

Just sayin'.........

 

[ThatGuyLando]

So even when they make them in Mexico they lose their shirt. It’s not labor cost that’s the problem.

It was never about labor cost, it's about the earnings they show their shareholders.

 

[Dear_OP]

How this thread has deviated.

With the new plants and retooling for EV plan how long before Ford is back at churning out EV at a healthy pace? 2... 3 years?
This is not a happy news for the Oakville plant and workers.
Ford delays EV production to 2027


Any mention of making their own batteries as to avoid being dependent to external suppliers?

 

[Socalsp3]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/11/tesla-raising-factory-worker-pay-in-us-as-uaw-aims-to-organize.html

https://worldatwork.org/resources/p...for-u-s-factory-workers-after-uaw-labor-deals

https://www.automotivedive.com/news/honda-raises-us-production-worker-wages-11-percent-UAW/699580/

I guess Tesla, Toyota, and Honda had to raise wages to keep workers too.

 

[Mach1E]

It's about the anti worker comment, what you would get if there were no workers rights and no regulations is what you see in India!

And it's a fact that having Union shops and factories drive the standard of living up for all workers even in non union work places.

And guess what? Your Mach E is union built.
https://fordauthority.com/2023/04/ford-mustang-mach-e-plant-workers-win-pay-increase/

Anti worker? Now you’re just making things up.

Anti-UAW isn’t anti-worker.

And again….. no. Without UAW we wouldn’t turn into Indian sweat shops.

We know exactly what non-union car factories look like. Honda, Toyota and BMW show us that right here in the US.

They make great cars, pay great wages, protect workers rights and do so without any strikes or unions needed.

FWIW I don’t hate all unions nor all the things the unions do.

Some are just completely obsolete and worse than others.

 

[johnnycombo]

Anti worker? Now you’re just making things up.

Anti-UAW isn’t anti-worker.

And again….. no. Without UAW we wouldn’t turn into Indian sweat shops.

We know exactly what non-union car factories look like. Honda, Toyota and BMW show us that right here in the US.

They make great cars, pay great wages, protect workers rights and do so without any strikes or unions needed.

FWIW I don’t hate all unions nor all the things the unions do.

Some are just completely obsolete and worse than others.

My point exactly, a rising union tide raises all boats! I know the difference in union and non union factories first hand and would never choose to work in a non union job over an union job.
As for good unions and bad unions, that is nonsense, if a union representative cheats or mistreats a union member he goes to jail "RICO Act 1970", If the company management cheats or mistreats a worker they get a bonus!
Oh and German auto manufacturers prefer to have union factories in the US, here's a link about German unions: https://www.yesmagazine.org/issue/poverty/2014/08/29/why-are-bmw-and-mercedes-so-rich
Here's another older article about the the closed VW plant in Pennsylvania, I think the article missed a few points, like the end of a tax free window and financial corruption by VW Germany that hurt the company world wide. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE99K0XE/

 

[Billyk24]

So even when they make them in Mexico they lose their shirt. It’s not labor cost that’s the problem.

Tesla ?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Tesla ?

Ford Mach-E! Tesla doesn’t lose money.

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