Fun dealer shenanigans

[ElectrifyME]

A few reasons... used car market profitability, increased useable battery capacity on the MY22, and we wanted Rapid Red.

Dealer gave us $57k for a trade-in on the MY21 which zero'd out the Delaware new vehicle document fee for the MY22. So we made a little money on the deal which then was transferred to the purchase of the MY22, bringing our payment down from around $670 to $500/mo.

Ok was the extended range worth it? Good to hear it was not because u didn’t like the car… sounds like u loved it enough to get another!

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[RedStallion]

I have a hunch those dirty games will end in just a few months. If I'm correct the recession already started (we'll know in July). Fed is not going to stop tightening and financing will get more expensive both for buyers and dealers.
Markets will continue to crater impacting the wealth effect. We'll likely see unemployment rising and shrinking discretionary spending. Add to that strong dollar and additional pressure from the Asian EV manufacturers.
All that will hit demand for MME hard and the dealers will be happy to unload inventory at much lower prices rather than paying increasing interest on their loans.

 

[connoisseurr]

Ok was the extended range worth it? Good to hear it was not because u didn’t like the car… sounds like u loved it enough to get another!

I have superior range anxiety so the extended range is worth it for us. I also drive back and forth between DE and VA a couple times a month so the range makes it easy to get there without the need for a full charge.

 

[yngwenli]

Having sold my SR RWD, I'm on the hunt for an ER AWD and found a potential candidate at a dealer in TX. The vehicle is a '21 Premium ER AWD in Rapid Red and it is a certified pre-owned. It has 4k on the clock and I was amenable to their sales price of $59,9xx. Granted, this is above what this car cost new, but such is the name of the game in today's market right?

I called and spoke to a salesperson, got assurances on the condition of the car, its history, etc. I clearly asked, "Is $59,9xx the actual sales price of the car?" The answer was yes. Yay! I found a car that I think would suit my desires and in the price range I was looking for.

Then comes the first build sheet....

I quite literally LOL'd when the sales guy texted it to me. He was right, their sales price was just under $60k, no "dealer markup," just some useful packages for peace of mind. A mere ~$7700 worth of said useful packages. Not a word about this ahead of time.

At my polite decline of the deal (thankfully this was through text so they couldn't hear my loud guffaws), then came the second build sheet....

Almost like magic, just about all of those useful packages vanished, almost as if they weren't really worth anything at all. Weird, right? All that remained was that final GPS tracker nonsense (folks, the car is trackable via the app...). I again politely declined, at which one that last package then became their "final offer" at $899.

I ended up completely declining to work with the dealership. Though they finally did get their car's price into a territory I am willing to pay, their unethical games turned me off of them. They are trying to take advantage of desperate, impatient, or ignorant people, not only making a killing on the resale of a used vehicle they picked up at an auction but also on those insane packages.

FWIW, if anyone else is looking for an ER AWD and wants to use this to get the same or better deal, go for it! After that back and forth, I personally couldn't stomach working with them. The sales guy was nice. The dealership's ethics, not so much.

Hence, why this process/car salespeople are the 2nd least trustworthy profession in America (I think Congress is #1).

I really hope that with more EVs, direct ordering, maybe manufacturers can simply pay dealerships/salespeople/folks more to handle inquiries, service, questions so people won't have to try to slip something under the table to put food on the table. Sorta like that Wells Fargo scam where salespeople were randomly opening accounts in your name with your SSN, etc...just to hit numbers and all that. It was sometimes not even to make $$, it was to keep your JOB and having been in sales (and not liking it), it's a crappy way of running things.

 

[yngwenli]

Why is car buying such a game? The worst thing! Hate sitting there going back and forth with my head in my hand whilst the husband is haggling…. Just tell me the price. I either buy it or I don’t. I actually hope this new car buying through ordering stays around. Anyone know if the ordered cars are being marked up? I have an agreed upon price; I upgraded at the time of the order; should I expect “add-ons”? Should I expect up to date software?

We've had someone post here where they ordered, and instead of marking it up, sold the car from under them (after 9?! months of waiting) most likely, for a large ADM.

It's not as common to have ADM on ordered cars, but there are enough postings of that here that it's not completely gone. Getting price protection can also be an exercise in pain as well.

 

[DennisD]

I have a hunch those dirty games will end in just a few months. If I'm correct the recession already started (we'll know in July). Fed is not going to stop tightening and financing will get more expensive both for buyers and dealers.
Markets will continue to crater impacting the wealth effect. We'll likely see unemployment rising and shrinking discretionary spending. Add to that strong dollar and additional pressure from the Asian EV manufacturers.
All that will hit demand for MME hard and the dealers will be happy to unload inventory at much lower prices rather than paying increasing interest on their loans.

While some of the things you mentioned might very well happen, I still think the supply chain will be extremely limited. The cars that are coming in are "order" cars and I am guessing many of those will be picked up (recession or no recession).

The MME's are being (I would assume) purchased/ordered by the more affluent and even though the demand may drop off, I really don't see any kind of inventory piling up like you may imagine for at least a year or two. I would guess the same with the housing market as well.

We are in a very unique period. Most "normal" times, the supply would be high and prices would drop. I think we won't have the supply issue solved and therefore the prices will stay stagnant at best.

Just my two cents. (factor in inflation and my thoughts are now worth less)

 

[jotay21]

So, did you happen to ask for a parts list or anything on the GPS and tire and wheel? I mean, I think it is illegal for you to be charged twice for the same part(once by ford and once by the dealership). I know that dealers can mark things up, but I don't think it is legal to falsely advertise something that doesn't actually exist on the car, then charge you for it.

 

[ReelSweet]

Wow...a $150 doc fee

 

[jeffdawgfan]

Stealerships.....I just bought a 2022 Nissan Frontier to replace my older RAM 1500 a week ago. The MME is the wife's baby. So I called a dealership two hours away because they had the color/options I wanted. Email exchange followed and they said they sold all vehicles right now at MSRP. With todays market, that is about the best you are going to get. So I drove the 119 miles to dealership in Knoxville. Yep, price was MSRP...plus $4,450 for market adjustment. I showed the email that said they would sell for MSRP and they hmmmed and hawed around. I said ok, I will buy at that but I am adding a $4,450 market adjustment to the trade-in on my RAM that we had already negotiated. They looked at me like I was crazy. So, I let them know I was pissed and started to drive away. I let them know that I would disclose their tactic on my google review of their dealership. "Wait, wait. Ok...since you are a veteran and Memorial day is coming we will sell to you at MSRP." So I said ok. Then the fun games in financing began. I knew Nissan was offering 2.9% on a 60 month loan. The finance manager said he could only get me 4.9%. I have perfect credit so I knew that was bullcrap and pulled it up online to show him the rate. "Oh, I was putting in your credit score wrong...it is 2.9%." Yeah, right. Of course I refuse all the add on packages they try to get you to purchase. Then he prints out the paperwork with a $695 document fee. I say I am not paying that. He states that Tennessee requires all dealerships to charge that....another lie. I pull out the paperwork that I had on the RAM and asked him why that dealer (also in Tennessee only charged me $100. I explained that the state did not require any such document fee. I got up to walk out and he agreed to a $100 document fee. I friggin hate the whole dealership model. I would rather have a colonoscopy than buy from a dealership and put up with all their crap. Think of all the people who just meekly go along with their crap and get ripped off to the tune of thousands. As I am driving away in the new truck the salesperson yells out to not forget my free two oil changes. Oh, yeah. I'll drive back up there for that..................

 

[DennisD]

Stealerships.....I just bought a 2022 Nissan Frontier to replace my older RAM 1500 a week ago. The MME is the wife's baby. So I called a dealership two hours away because they had the color/options I wanted. Email exchange followed and they said they sold all vehicles right now at MSRP. With todays market, that is about the best you are going to get. So I drove the 119 miles to dealership in Knoxville. Yep, price was MSRP...plus $4,450 for market adjustment. I showed the email that said they would sell for MSRP and they hmmmed and hawed around. I said ok, I will buy at that but I am adding a $4,450 market adjustment to the trade-in on my RAM that we had already negotiated. They looked at me like I was crazy. So, I let them know I was pissed and started to drive away. I let them know that I would disclose their tactic on my google review of their dealership. "Wait, wait. Ok...since you are a veteran and Memorial day is coming we will sell to you at MSRP." So I said ok. Then the fun games in financing began. I knew Nissan was offering 2.9% on a 60 month loan. The finance manager said he could only get me 4.9%. I have perfect credit so I knew that was bullcrap and pulled it up online to show him the rate. "Oh, I was putting in your credit score wrong...it is 2.9%." Yeah, right. Of course I refuse all the add on packages they try to get you to purchase. Then he prints out the paperwork with a $695 document fee. I say I am not paying that. He states that Tennessee requires all dealerships to charge that....another lie. I pull out the paperwork that I had on the RAM and asked him why that dealer (also in Tennessee only charged me $100. I explained that the state did not require any such document fee. I got up to walk out and he agreed to a $100 document fee. I friggin hate the whole dealership model. I would rather have a colonoscopy than buy from a dealership and put up with all their crap. Think of all the people who just meekly go along with their crap and get ripped off to the tune of thousands. As I am driving away in the new truck the salesperson yells out to not forget my free two oil changes. Oh, yeah. I'll drive back up there for that..................

The more amazing thing is that there are actually people on this forum that call this tactic the "Free Market" and they apparently have no problem with this.

They would say that is what the Market is demanding and that you have the option to walk away.

I have another word for it. BS!!

Dealerships have been burying hidden costs more and more throughout the years and that is why I have no love for them whatsoever. It is slimy, sleazy (add your own adjective) and it is quite disturbing in many instances.

Now while there are some that are honest, many of them will take advantage of any situation and most times it is the weak they prey on.

You are diligent and you are a rare breed.

My hats off to you, you did well!!

 

[Radman]

I’m sure everyone has experience bad dealership practices. I was trying to by a GT on the lot and negotiated a price. Once I got to the dealer everything went sideways. They added 13K vs the 5k that was originally negotiated. I walked. The dealer that I got my car had no hidden costs. They were straight forward and broke down the costs and when I arrived all of the paperwork was ready. Not all dealerships are bad or maybe I just got lucky.

 

[MachEr]

Having sold my SR RWD, I'm on the hunt for an ER AWD and found a potential candidate at a dealer in TX. The vehicle is a '21 Premium ER AWD in Rapid Red and it is a certified pre-owned. It has 4k on the clock and I was amenable to their sales price of $59,9xx. Granted, this is above what this car cost new, but such is the name of the game in today's market right?

I called and spoke to a salesperson, got assurances on the condition of the car, its history, etc. I clearly asked, "Is $59,9xx the actual sales price of the car?" The answer was yes. Yay! I found a car that I think would suit my desires and in the price range I was looking for.

Then comes the first build sheet....

I quite literally LOL'd when the sales guy texted it to me. He was right, their sales price was just under $60k, no "dealer markup," just some useful packages for peace of mind. A mere ~$7700 worth of said useful packages. Not a word about this ahead of time.

At my polite decline of the deal (thankfully this was through text so they couldn't hear my loud guffaws), then came the second build sheet....

Almost like magic, just about all of those useful packages vanished, almost as if they weren't really worth anything at all. Weird, right? All that remained was that final GPS tracker nonsense (folks, the car is trackable via the app...). I again politely declined, at which one that last package then became their "final offer" at $899.

I ended up completely declining to work with the dealership. Though they finally did get their car's price into a territory I am willing to pay, their unethical games turned me off of them. They are trying to take advantage of desperate, impatient, or ignorant people, not only making a killing on the resale of a used vehicle they picked up at an auction but also on those insane packages.

FWIW, if anyone else is looking for an ER AWD and wants to use this to get the same or better deal, go for it! After that back and forth, I personally couldn't stomach working with them. The sales guy was nice. The dealership's ethics, not so much.

I'll sell you a nice 21' ER AWD

 

[Mach1E]

I have a hunch those dirty games will end in just a few months. If I'm correct the recession already started (we'll know in July). Fed is not going to stop tightening and financing will get more expensive both for buyers and dealers.
Markets will continue to crater impacting the wealth effect. We'll likely see unemployment rising and shrinking discretionary spending. Add to that strong dollar and additional pressure from the Asian EV manufacturers.
All that will hit demand for MME hard and the dealers will be happy to unload inventory at much lower prices rather than paying increasing interest on their loans.

Sounds like wishful thinking. While everything you say may come to pass, I don’t think it’ll drop car prices.

Remind me the last time that the price of new cars went down over the last 30 years.

Only time it temporarily happened was 2008, and that was very temporary.

I wouldn’t bet against inflation, especially with these three major factors-
1.$3 trillion in extra cash savings in the hands of individuals in the US coated to pre-Covid
2. 9+ month waiting lists for new cars
3. Continuing supply chain issues.

Here are the last 30 yrs of new car prices charts-

 

[RedStallion]

Sounds like wishful thinking. While everything you say may come to pass, I don’t think it’ll drop car prices.

Remind me the last time that the price of new cars went down over the last 30 years.

Only time it temporarily happened was 2008, and that was very temporary.

I wouldn’t bet against inflation, especially with these three major factors-
1.$3 trillion in extra cash savings in the hands of individuals in the US coated to pre-Covid
2. 9+ month waiting lists for new cars
3. Continuing supply chain issues.

Here are the last 30 yrs of new car prices charts-

You are missing the point. As I explained, due to all those various factors the dealers will be incentivized in moving inventory and that can only be done by cutting all those junk charges on top of MSRP.
Your other arguments about inflation are rather incomplete. Price inflation depends on more factors than you listed. In particular, the velocity of money is decreasing as the economy enters recession. The inverse wealth effect is increasing due to markets falling and mortgages becoming more expensive, and real estate prices inevitably falling after that. Price inflation is not uniform, while energy and food prices continue rising, the other components of the CPI will start falling. Cars in particular will see a lot less demand.

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