Advertisement



Grille logo will be running pony. Limited availability for Mach E?

w3rkn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
38
Location
Mich
Vehicles
Edge Sport (tuned)
Country flag
The high performance/low volume aspect would make sense...if they were one of the first on the scene, but they're not. At this point, it's catch up time and they have to compete with Tesla, Rivian, and all the other big car brands that just announced a ton of EV cars at one of the big car events that just happened last month (can't recall the name, VW had quite a few announcements as well as others). I do think one of the biggest hurdles will be having enough knowledgeable technicians to service these vehicles.

Who else in America is making an all electric sports car..?
 

MachSpeed

Well-Known Member
First Name
Doc
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
358
Reaction score
198
Location
West By God Virginia
First Name
Doc
Vehicles
2019 Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCrew 2015 Mustang EcoBoost convertible
Country flag
I do think one of the biggest hurdles will be having enough knowledgeable technicians to service these vehicles.
Hopefully Ford already has technicians in a training program so the new EV's will be properly serviced.
 

Abie915

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
3
Reaction score
5
Location
Kc
Vehicles
2015 Mustang GT
Country flag
Let me ask you both...

Would it be better for Ford to release their first EV to Hundreds of Thousands of People, and learn from all those manufacturing problems and support all those EV back-end at Dealers across the Country in a mad dash of being the forefront of EV cars…?
Ford does not have the luxury of time to ‘work things out’. Tesla sold close to 80k Model 3s in Q3 alone. The Model Y will begin shipping mid 2020, and Elon Musk has said he expects it to sell more than all their other models combined. I don’t want to sound overly negative, but Ford needs to be shipping in volume if they intend to stay relevant in EVs
 

w3rkn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
38
Location
Mich
Vehicles
Edge Sport (tuned)
Country flag
Ford does not have the luxury of time to ‘work things out’. Tesla sold close to 80k Model 3s in Q3 alone. The Model Y will begin shipping mid 2020, and Elon Musk has said he expects it to sell more than all their other models combined. I don’t want to sound overly negative, but Ford needs to be shipping in volume if they intend to stay relevant in EVs
SO what..?

Tesla doesn't sell other cars, Ford does. They can take all the time they want... they are an established car company and have been making cars for over a 100 years..!


This is not a contest to see who can sell more electric vehicles, this is a question of rolling out Ford vision of the Future. Tesla has different customer, than Ford.

Tesla doesn't have to worry about upsetting their F-150 customers, when they release an Ford branded EV, do they..? So Ford can afford to take their time and get it right. That is what next week is all about. Ford's vision for their Electric Vehicles.... and they will be showcasing their halo car. The Mach E..!

I highly doubt this is your average EV sports hatch… I wonder if Ford Performance will have played a part in this?
2015-ford-performance-lineup[1].jpg
 

ejss

Well-Known Member
First Name
Erik
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
138
Location
Kansas City
First Name
Erik
Vehicles
2011 Ford Focus
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
The market is changing, and big companies are getting pushed out. Ford didn't get a huge deal from Amazon for EV transits, Rivian did (even though Ford has an investment in Rivian). Not taking other manufacturers seriously, is what leads to losing credibility in a segment that is up and coming. Saying that Ford has been around forever doesn't matter. That's what loyalists think, but a lot of loyalists aren't the future of business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F91

Res Nullius

Well-Known Member
First Name
Evan
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
56
Reaction score
60
Location
Thousand Oaks
First Name
Evan
Vehicles
e-Golf, X3
Country flag
The market is changing, and big companies are getting pushed out. Ford didn't get a huge deal from Amazon for EV transits, Rivian did (even though Ford has an investment in Rivian). Not taking other manufacturers seriously, is what leads to losing credibility in a segment that is up and coming. Saying that Ford has been around forever doesn't matter. That's what loyalists think, but a lot of loyalists aren't the future of business.
Exactly. And I think the companies' respective share prices are reflective of which company the public thinks is best positioned for the future right now. And share prices determines a public auto company's current and future viability; 100 years of history doesn't matter a lick.

Fact is, all the legacy manufacturers got caught standing by the sidelines as Tesla trailblazer the EV market and it's taken each of them years to even introduce EV models that are supposed to compete with Teslas. So I hope Ford is aggressive here with the Mach E and have made it competitive in terms of performance, range and immediately/wide availability.
 

ejss

Well-Known Member
First Name
Erik
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
138
Location
Kansas City
First Name
Erik
Vehicles
2011 Ford Focus
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
I would love to see Ford do well. One of the unfortunate parts for me is their partnering with Electrify America doesn't benefit me much, as in the KC area, there is only 1 of their charging stations here (and it's in the shitty part of Independence, MO). Meanwhile, Tesla has 3 supercharger locations in the KC area. My parking garage has 5 or 6 spots for EV charging, though, which is nice.

I'll say this, Barnes and Noble had a lot of loyalists. They took awhile to jump on the online bandwagon. They lost a lot of money to other companies making that jump sooner. I don't want to see Ford like that, so they need to go EV all in. Mass market or potential sales WILL go to another American EV car/car company: Tesla and their Model Y.
 

Midnight Blue

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
57
Reaction score
35
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
‘15 Accord; ‘94 GT Mustang
Country flag

BadaBing

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
76
Reaction score
99
Location
Bellevue
First Name
Tony
Vehicles
Mustang & Explorer
Country flag

w3rkn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
38
Location
Mich
Vehicles
Edge Sport (tuned)
Country flag
The market is changing, and big companies are getting pushed out. Ford didn't get a huge deal from Amazon for EV transits, Rivian did (even though Ford has an investment in Rivian). Not taking other manufacturers seriously, is what leads to losing credibility in a segment that is up and coming. Saying that Ford has been around forever doesn't matter. That's what loyalists think, but a lot of loyalists aren't the future of business.
And..?

You make it sound as if the Mach E is the ONLY electric vehicle Ford has in development, when they have stated, they have several in development for different segments. The Mach E is the first of those new electric vehicles and it is meant to be a showcase vehicle, not a mass market one, Period!

Do you know how long it is going to take Ford's Dealer Service departments to hire extra techs, to handle & work on high voltage systems, etc. The training involved..? The logistics..?

Hence, Ford is not going to Manufacture a mass selling electric car, until it can support such an endeavor.. Expect about 15k Mach E/year, for those who can afford new-tech performance..... starting at $50k.



Tesla branding is much different. They are pure luxury cars, for People who generally don't like driving and want to get around in style, luxury and environmentally minded way. (Going to point A to B as inexpensive and as frugal as possible.)

Subsequently, the Mach E is for those who love driving and want an engaging experience, not a car with autopilot & build-in smugness and a disengaging experience. I believe the Mach E is meant to be in the stable along side other prancing horses....

It's not green, it's mean...! And it is how you build mindshare, thus loyalist. (hence Mustang and Performance)
 

mhcrowder

Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
9
Reaction score
19
Location
Cary, NC
First Name
Michael
Vehicles
Mazda CX5
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Country flag
I would love to see Ford do well. One of the unfortunate parts for me is their partnering with Electrify America doesn't benefit me much, as in the KC area, there is only 1 of their charging stations here (and it's in the shitty part of Independence, MO). Meanwhile, Tesla has 3 supercharger locations in the KC area. My parking garage has 5 or 6 spots for EV charging, though, which is nice.
Although what Tesla has found out, it's not the Fast Charger in your hometown that matters, it's the ones along your route of extended (100+ miles) travel. Most owners are charging at home (i.e. keeping topped off) and only fast charging when on road trips. But I agree, Tesla's Super Charger network has got everyone beat for the foreseeable future.

The Electrify America network is expanding and is looking good. There does seem to be a "black hole" in the deep south, even along the Interstate corridors. Hopefully they will be improving that over time. I'm also hoping Ford Dealers jump on board and start putting Fast Chargers at their dealerships. That would quickly help expand Ford's EV acceptance!
 

w3rkn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
38
Location
Mich
Vehicles
Edge Sport (tuned)
Country flag
Specially if you own a Mach E and can charge for free at Dealers.....
 

ejss

Well-Known Member
First Name
Erik
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
138
Location
Kansas City
First Name
Erik
Vehicles
2011 Ford Focus
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
And..?

You make it sound as if the Mach E is the ONLY electric vehicle Ford has in development, when they have stated, they have several in development for different segments. The Mach E is the first of those new electric vehicles and it is meant to be a showcase vehicle, not a mass market one, Period!
Their showcase vehicle is the mustang at SEMA. That is how you do a showcase. This is nothing but a good competitor to Tesla's powerhouse of selection. I can tell you want this to be a Taycan competitor, but that's not how it will or should be. Ford does not have a rich following others do, so they need to cater to their crowd and hopefully lower end Tesla buyers.

Do you know how long it is going to take Ford's Dealer Service departments to hire extra techs, to handle & work on high voltage systems, etc. The training involved..? The logistics..?

Hence, Ford is not going to Manufacture a mass selling electric car, until it can support such an endeavor.. Expect about 15k Mach E/year, for those who can afford new-tech performance..... starting at $50k.
It's something they probably have been thinking about for awhile, so they should already have those people lined up for training after November 17th's announcement (since they'll have around a year for training specifically on these cars, which at first is hopefully just maintenance which isn't much for them to do - another nice benefit to EVs). Hate to break it to you, but $40-50k is entry level performance EV pricing. Don't think Leaf, think Tesla. Good range, performance, and decent pricing. They need this to be more than a measly 15k/year for this car to have an impact. If they were launching this next to the Model S (or maybe even 3), it would be fine. Their problem is, if it's too limited production, people will turn elsewhere and Ford will lose even more interest and market share to other manufacturers that are building EVs (like I previously said, Mazda, Volkswagen, Audi, and others will be launching their EVs by 2021).

Tesla branding is much different. They are pure luxury cars, for People who generally don't like driving and want to get around in style, luxury and environmentally minded way. (Going to point A to B as inexpensive and as frugal as possible.)

Subsequently, the Mach E is for those who love driving and want an engaging experience, not a car with autopilot & build-in smugness and a disengaging experience. I believe the Mach E is meant to be in the stable along side other prancing horses....

It's not green, it's mean...! And it is how you build mindshare, thus loyalist. (hence Mustang and Performance)
Tesla isn't a luxury car. The S and X maybe, but the 3 and Y are just as luxury as a Fusion or Taurus. Also, if you are in the view point of thinking people that buy Teslas aren't interested or don't like driving...that's just plain wrong. You're essentially making the same argument that someone could make for people that buy 6 banger mustangs. They buy it to get around looking sporty, not for the driving experience. Seeing Tesla take Model S plaid editions to the Nurburgring recently shows it's not just some uppity luxury car. It is a performance monster wrapped in some nice as hell package.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder for Tesla (even though they're an American company, like Ford), which I really just don't understand. Try to think about it from a different perspective and realize, Tesla owners aren't some Mercedes G wagon, rich housewives/wall street guy type. They are just like all of us. They just found a company that would do what Ford is doing now, at an earlier time (and were willing to pay in for that experience).
 

Whatstreet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
221
Reaction score
135
Location
Fremont, CA
Vehicles
Chevrolet Volt, Ford Expedition, Toyota Prius
Occupation
Electronics Engineer
Country flag
If it's low volume, why not build a super coupe? Why even attempt mass market appeal with a four door hatchback. Why not build a two door fastback like the Mach 1?

While I need more versatility than a two door, there are many that would buy a good looking fast car so I see a conflict here.

Volume may be limited for the performance version or volume may be limited in the first year, but what Ford really wants is high volume.
 

RdsON

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
10
Reaction score
18
Location
Texas
Vehicles
01RAV4EV, 15,18Mustangs, 84-07Accords, 07RAV4, 91NSX, 91ZX11,
Occupation
Engineer
Country flag
Kodak was an established company like Ford.
Kodak sold film cameras.
Kodak DEVELOPED THE FIRST DIGITAL CAMERA IN 1975!
They thought they could take all the time they wanted to develop digital cameras because digital cameras competed with film and they thought film customers were different customers than digital cameras. The thought process that digital cameras cannibalized their film business guaranteed Kodak's FAILURE.

Any business case argument that Ford's existing internal combustion engine business should be considered at all when making decisions on the Mach E and the entire Ford EV business is extremely dangerous to Ford's survival.

Henry Ford and Elon Musk both built automobile companies as well as the business and manufacturing processes needed. There is VERY REAL risk that building an EV business as a derivative of an existing IC company like Ford risks critical Competitive Advantage as in Kodak's Failure.

Henry Ford lead the decimation of the horse carriage industry just as Elon Musk is leading the decimation of the Internal Combustion industry.

Tesla EV shipments are leading the decimation of the IC industry: NOT FORD.
Tesla is developing low cost high volume foreign factories to build "appliance" EVs. Just like Apple: "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China."

Kodak failed because they were distracted by their chemical film business.
Ford will fail if they are distracted by their Internal Combustion business.
Tesla has ZERO distraction!

Elon Musk has studied Ford's rise. Henry Ford would chastise anyone that puts down Elon.

What are the parallels in timing and efforts of Kodak in entering the Digital Camera business, and Ford building an EV business? If Ford repeats Kodak's actions, why would there be any different outcome?



This is Ford's "Kodak Moment":
The Mach E is EVERYTHING and it is everything Now.
 
Last edited:



 










Advertisement


Top