Hey Ford, you are useless (at solving the lack of DC charging)

[codewzrd]

Park City Ford has 2 Chargepoint Chargers

https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point?id=1:13311581&action=view

Sponsored

 

[silverelan]

Honest question…why is it Fords responsibility to supply chargers? Do any car manufacturers own gas stations or did they at the beginning of gas cars?
Tesla was forced to, to encourage people to adopt EV’s. It seems Ford is providing owners the quickest access to fast chargers by being the first to sign on to the largest most reliable network of fast chargers.

Long story short; to sell their EVs.

Ford tried the lazy way with CCS charging by outsourcing the infrastructure to Electrify America. The anecdotal evidence was so bad on EA that they used the Charging Angels to gather nationwide data and the results were undeniable: CCS sucks in general and EA in particular was singlehandedly going to kill Ford’s EV transition.

The only two paths forward were either to double down on CCS and invest billions into a third party charging consortium or go the cheap route and outsource the charging to Tesla.

 

[VaderMachE]

Haven't seen a single one installed and with the recent backtracking of the Ford EV program who knows. That article is now a year old and what has happened since?

OTOH, I've actually used real world DC chargers (ChargePoint) installed at Hyundai dealerships. I believe Hyundai forced dealerships to install chargers as part of the EV certification process and a handful have public DC chargers. Ford is full of hot air.

Well, my sister works at Brondes Ford in Maumee Ohio (Toledo area). They have all the ground work done, chargers are there, waiting on a computer board that's on nationwide backorder. When completed, they'll have spots for 12 vehicles to charge. They also have three level 2 chargers already there. This dealership sits just off of interstate 475/23 and is a major artery to Michigan or attaches to interstate 75. They put out serious money for this, so I would not say nothing his happening. Maybe not at the speed you'd like. This stuff takes a minute, so just breathe.

 

[GatorGrowl]

Both FL Buc-ees currently have Mercedes CCS chargers under construction

It appears the MBUSA 400kw chargers at Buc-ee’s in Daytona Beach, FL is now open…

 

[voxel]

It appears the MBUSA 400kw chargers at Buc-ee’s in Daytona Beach, FL is now open…

Yeah I saw it operational on ChargePoint earlier today after it disappeared off the app and website for a day.. Another Rivian owner plans to visit it on Friday.

 

[voxel]

So if carmakers don't help build DC charging networks... who will?

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/3...lem-which-means-it-has-an-investment-problem/

Not random investors who will lose money investing in DC chargers. ChargePoint is a completely different company as they sell network services and hardware. EVGo has been bleeding and dying for years now.

 

[GatorGrowl]

So if carmakers don't help build DC charging networks... who will?

Currently all funding is through NEVI. Why invest $100k+ of your own money when you can get the government to do it for you.

I think Ford’s charger buildout strategy is something of a market differentiator: they are focused almost entirely on the commercial market with Ford Pro. For regulatory reasons, many businesses are forced to use EVs. Ford seems intent on capturing that demand.

Consumer EV charging is stuck behind a power grid that can’t support enough chargers. The average EV fast charging session pulls 2-4 times as much electricity in an hour as the average house pulls in a day. The regulatory environment for building EV chargers is a mess, as are the regulations on how much they can charge for electricity. As a result, it takes fully two years or more to go from wanting a charging site to having one.

 

[voxel]

Currently all funding is through NEVI. Why invest $100k+ of your own money when you can get the government to do it for you.

I think Ford’s charger buildout strategy is something of a market differentiator: they are focused almost entirely on the commercial market with Ford Pro. For regulatory reasons, many businesses are forced to use EVs. Ford seems intent on capturing that demand.

Consumer EV charging is stuck behind a power grid that can’t support enough chargers. The average EV fast charging session pulls 2-4 times as much electricity in an hour as the average house pulls in a day. The regulatory environment for building EV chargers is a mess, as are the regulations on how much they can charge for electricity. As a result, it takes fully two years or more to go from wanting a charging site to having one.

IMO NEVI funding in Florida will be blocked. Currently, no NEVI funds have been allocated in FL.

Florida NEVI council/group has not even officially release the RFA (bid form) and it's been hinted by various insiders that politics will delay it until the next administration arrives.

 

[GatorGrowl]

I don’t really know about the politics or timing. I only read the NEVI plan. I’ll take your word on whether it will ever come to pass.
Either way, not a lot of incentive for anyone to install a new pad on their own nickel.
https://fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/default-source/emergingtechnologies/evprogram/2023_florida's-evidp_update_092923.pdf?sfvrsn=1e4aee0_1

 

[voxel]

I don’t really know about the politics or timing. I only read the NEVI plan. I’ll take your word on whether it will ever come to pass.
Either way, not a lot of incentive for anyone to install a new pad on their own nickel.
https://fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/default-source/emergingtechnologies/evprogram/2023_florida's-evidp_update_092923.pdf?sfvrsn=1e4aee0_1

Exactly... that's why carmakers are bowing down to Lord Elon and using NACS. They've basically created a new monopoly for Tesla and submitted to his will. Who knows which chargers Teslas will even open up and what the rates will be (Tesla SC prices have always been higher than EA). I think it is a giant mistake long-term for the carmakers but least CCS1 will die off (terrible connector).

Each state has a NEVI plan and separate comments. I read a few comments from FL vendors and the Tesla one stuck out. They complained about the slow permitting process and how it takes 12+ months to build a new location here.

Florida RFA for NEVI is still WIP

https://www.fdot.gov/emergingtechnologies/home/evprogram/rfa

 

[Ladj1985]

Phil long Ford in Colorado Springs has 3 DCFC evconnect stalls. It’s about 50-50 if you can use one that isn’t blocked by stock cars.

 

[ShaggySS]

Who knows which chargers Teslas will even open up and what the rates will be (Tesla SC prices have always been higher than EA). I think it is a giant mistake long-term for the carmakers but least CCS1 will die off (terrible connector).

I was surprised by the SC rates. Here in CA where electricity is not cheap for most I was worried when we took a recent trip from to SoCal. I paid from 20 to 38 cents per kWh to charge that trip in my wife's car. While charging I checked out a few EA chargers and they were 48 to 56 cents per kWh. Even when they add the 10 cents for non Tesla cars to charge it is still cheaper here in CA.

CCS needs to die off!

 

[voxel]

A friend checked out the chargers at Buc-ee's at Daytona and they are indeed live and operational. Slightly more (44 cents) than SCs (33 cents which is low for FL) but Supercharger prices are all over the place in FL.

 

[dbsb3233]

Long story short; to sell their EVs.

Ford tried the lazy way with CCS charging by outsourcing the infrastructure to Electrify America. The anecdotal evidence was so bad on EA that they used the Charging Angels to gather nationwide data and the results were undeniable: CCS sucks in general and EA in particular was singlehandedly going to kill Ford’s EV transition.

The only two paths forward were either to double down on CCS and invest billions into a third party charging consortium or go the cheap route and outsource the charging to Tesla.

Dealership chargers had, and would still have, zero impact on my decision to buy an EV from Ford (or anyone else).

Last place I wanna spend 30 minutes killing time is a dealership.

 

[silverelan]

Dealership chargers had, and would still have, zero impact on my decision to buy an EV from Ford (or anyone else).

Last place I wanna spend 30 minutes killing time is a dealership.

Right. Ford dealers are not ideal places to hang out while you're getting a charge on a road trip. Not to say a dealer couldn't figure out a way to make it work for them, but there's better places to get a charge.

A friend checked out the chargers at Buc-ee's at Daytona and they are indeed live and operational. Slightly more (44 cents) than SCs (33 cents which is low for FL) but Supercharger prices are all over the place in FL.

Mercedes Benz investment in charging infrastructure is pretty amazing. They're spending something like $1 billion on their partnership with Buc-ee's and Simon malls to install stations. They're also likely putting in a bunch of cash into the new 7-OEM charging consortium that's been formed.

The new consortium is rumored to be a dedicated fast-charging company that will have their own travel centers across the USA and Canada for DCFC. I'd like to see Ford participate in this to help roll out as much non-Tesla charging as possible.