Leave it plugged in, or unplug?

[BMT1071]

Not to be argumentative but you don't know either way as well. There has been almost no degradation evident on the Volt engineering base, which is what the Mache is based on, which has an over protective buffer. I think Mary Barra once said that GM has not had to change a single Bolt or Volt battery for degradation warranty. There are Bolts out there with over 300,000 miles on them, 100% charges, very little degradation visible. My 2010 volt has over 4000 100% cycles on it almost no degradation visible. With all due respect I don't think your storage solution has anything close to auto grade cooling and engineering or out in the field experience. The buffer over protection makes it so 100% usable charge is meaningless. You can never get 100% charge or discharge.

Now if you do a true charge to 100% which on the Mache is something like 108% charge and let it sit there for a month or two I can see rapid degradation happening. But engineering makes this impossible.

Let's take to the next step, OK you have degradation, so what. Your car is old out of warranty, spend $5000 to $10,000 and get a recondition battery core put in. I bet the core will be newer and will actually increase range! I just don't understand this one.

This article backs up your theory.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
I have no plans to baby the battery in my MME.

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[phidauex]

Not to be argumentative but you don't know either way as well. There has been almost no degradation evident on the Volt engineering base, which is what the Mache is based on, which has an over protective buffer. I think Mary Barra once said that GM has not had to change a single Bolt or Volt battery for degradation warranty. There are Bolts out there with over 300,000 miles on them, 100% charges, very little degradation visible. My 2010 volt has over 4000 100% cycles on it almost no degradation visible. With all due respect I don't think your storage solution has anything close to auto grade cooling and engineering or out in the field experience. The buffer over protection makes it so 100% usable charge is meaningless. You can never get 100% charge or discharge.

Now if you do a true charge to 100% which on the Mache is something like 108% charge and let it sit there for a month or two I can see rapid degradation happening. But engineering makes this impossible.

I’m not scaremongering on degradation - the cooling systems are good, and the batteries are well proven. I wouldn’t be buying one if I didn’t think so. I tend to own my vehicles for a very long time so I’ve always paid attention to things like oil life and battery degradation that not everyone else needs to pay attention to.

However, politely, I want to point out that I’m responsible for one of the largest and earliest (10+yr) grid-scale storage deployments in the world, including an independent testing lab, and procurement volumes in the GWhs from all the major manufacturers discussed here. You can operate your cars however you want, and you clearly have a system setup that works for you, but if you want to argue about long term degradation chemistry then you’ll need to bring some bonafides.

 

[phidauex]

This article backs up your theory.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
I have no plans to baby the battery in my MME.

Good article, and yes, it does show the engineering is working the way it is supposed to be working, but if you look at the end of the article it still gives the same recommendations that Ford and everyone else are still making for maximizing battery life…

 

[BMT1071]

Good article, and yes, it does show the engineering is working the way it is supposed to be working, but if you look at the end of the article it still gives the same recommendations that Ford and everyone else are still making for maximizing battery life…

Yes, but the very minimal difference in degradation between closely following the recommendation and not is the salient point in my opinion.

 

[theo1000]

You can operate your cars however you want, and you clearly have a system setup that works for you, but if you want to argue about long term degradation chemistry then you’ll need to bring some bonafides.

Again these appeals to authority don't mean a lot on a forum. Trying to keep the conversation as limited as possible. Please read carefully. I will point out again you are comparing Apple's to Orange's here. We are talking auto motive battery degradation engineering. Specifically the engineering line the MachE is based on.

On this specific item there is very little variation between charging to to 90% usable to 100% usable on this particular type of engineered automotive batteries on the Volt line.

I have no interest in discussing the incredibly broad topic of 'long term degradation chemistry` and not real sure what that means.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Again these appeals to authority don't mean a lot on a forum. Trying to keep the conversation as limited as possible. Please read carefully. I will point out again you are comparing Apple's to Orange's here. We are talking auto motive battery degradation engineering. Specifically the engineering line the MachE is based on.

On this specific item there is very little variation between charging to to 90% usable to 100% usable on this particular type of engineered automotive batteries on the Volt line.

I have no interest in discussing the incredibly broad topic of 'long term degradation chemistry` and not real sure what that means.

The only bonafides we have on this is Ford's recommendations:

 

[MrsLofgreen]

I leave mine plugged in while parked at home.

Fellow Arizonian here, with the heat going above 100 recently I am receiving a notification on the dashboard to keep my car plugged in due to the high temperatures. I hadn't been keeping it plugged in before, but I will now. Have you received that notification also?

 

[MarleysMME]

Read this guy's posts. Very informative on battery maintenance. I have my app setup to charge to a max 90% unless I'm going cross country. I don't charge everyday either depending on my driving plans.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ask-an-electrical-engineer.4307/post-129050

 

[macchiaz-o]

Fellow Arizonian here, with the heat going above 100 recently I am receiving a notification on the dashboard to keep my car plugged in due to the high temperatures. I hadn't been keeping it plugged in before, but I will now. Have you received that notification also?

I see it every now and then since May 14. I think we only get the message if the electronics are getting above a certain temp. Like if I only drive slow, short trips in the middle of a hot day, I might not see this message on the dash. But after my work commute, I do see it.

 

[Sundevil]

I see it every now and then since May 14. I think we only get the message if the electronics are getting above a certain temp. Like if I only drive slow, short trips in the middle of a hot day, I might not see this message on the dash. But after my work commute, I do see it.

If I don't plug in when I see this message will the battery cooling still kick in? I assume this message is just meant to encourage plugging in so the car can use outlet power to cool down and thus preserve the battery levels for actual use of the car. Is that correct? I don't leave the car plugged in and I expect that I'll see this message pretty often now that we are in the triple digit range daily. Also I'll be going back to the office soon and the car will be sitting in the sun for most of the day now without a source of power so I really hope that my assumption is correct and the car will still cool the battery if needed during the day while unplugged.

 

[macchiaz-o]

If I don't plug in when I see this message will the battery cooling still kick in? I assume this message is just meant to encourage plugging in so the car can use outlet power to cool down and thus preserve the battery levels for actual use of the car. Is that correct? I don't leave the car plugged in and I expect that I'll see this message pretty often now that we are in the triple digit range daily. Also I'll be going back to the office soon and the car will be sitting in the sun for most of the day now without a source of power so I really hope that my assumption is correct and the car will still cool the battery if needed during the day while unplugged.

I don't know yet. I've not yet heard fans or anything running when I approach the car after work. (Unless I've done a remote start.) I can't plug in at work either and it's a big unshaded lot.

I've also not heard fans or anything running when I plug in upon arriving home. Which is weird since I figured they would want to drop the electronics temps down.

I park inside a garage though. Maybe they are measuring solar load as part of the heuristics of deciding when to run cooling sequences?

 

[SnBGC]

If I don't plug in when I see this message will the battery cooling still kick in? I assume this message is just meant to encourage plugging in so the car can use outlet power to cool down and thus preserve the battery levels for actual use of the car. Is that correct? I don't leave the car plugged in and I expect that I'll see this message pretty often now that we are in the triple digit range daily. Also I'll be going back to the office soon and the car will be sitting in the sun for most of the day now without a source of power so I really hope that my assumption is correct and the car will still cool the battery if needed during the day while unplugged.

I believe the car will only cool the battery when plugged in or when remote started and possibly when getting ready for a Departure time.

 

[MrsLofgreen]

I see it every now and then since May 14. I think we only get the message if the electronics are getting above a certain temp. Like if I only drive slow, short trips in the middle of a hot day, I might not see this message on the dash. But after my work commute, I do see it.

Mine has also only popped up when I have returned home, maybe it recognizes I am home and is making the suggestion to plug in because of that.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Mine has also only popped up when I have returned home, maybe it recognizes I am home and is making the suggestion to plug in because of that.

I think it's only a coincidence. I saw it pop up yesterday when I parked away from home.

 

[ARK]

So it's pretty clear that the Mach-E should be left plugged in when it is really hot outside from the above discussion. Does anyone know though what exactly happens when the Mach-E is plugged in and done charging?

To take a common example, let's say you set a max charge of 90%. The Mach-E hits 90%. You don't unplug. Some time passes and now it is 100 degrees outside and the Mach-E is cooking in the sun.

Does anyone know or have an educated guess of what systems will turn on and what their power draw is?

I assume the Mach-E also wouldn't just be ping ponging between decreasing 1% battery charge based on the power draw of this system, the EVSE coming back on for a few minutes, the battery reaching the max set charge, the EVSE shutting off, the battery cooling using energy and again dropping the battery down by 1%, the EVSE coming back on to charge, etc., several times an hour.

Or perhaps would the Mach-E charger be able to throttle itself when close to max set charge to just slightly draw power as the active battery cooling stays on so the EVSE sort of stays on in a low power active mode if the Mach-E is really hot and wants to cool itself after the set max charge is reached?

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