LFP or NMC?

coolshades

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Threads
64
Messages
464
Reaction score
303
Location
UK
Vehicles
Jaguar XF -> Mach E AWD ER, Rapid Red
Country flag
Those who know about these things …. Are our batteries LFP or NMC?


I read something on the internet (which is always right ) that LFPs are the new kid on the blocks with less range leakage in winter, are cheaper to make and that Tesla is moving to th
Sponsored

 

kltye

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
880
Reaction score
1,381
Location
Chicago
Vehicles
IB MME Premium RWD
Country flag
I don't know if it's NMC, but it's definitely not LFP.
 

ADDZ71

Well-Known Member
First Name
Austin
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
177
Reaction score
178
Location
Brevard, NC
Vehicles
21 MME Premium ER AWD (sold) 22 MME GT (Del 5/22)
Occupation
Lithium expert
Country flag
It is NMC. A higher nickel variant (622) produced by a company from Korea called Posco. NMC varieties have been widely used in EV's since the late 2000's. The technology was developed by Argonne National Labs for some variants and 3M.

LFP has been around a reasonably long time with the first widespread adoption being the A123 batteries that went into the original Fiskers in 2011 or so. LFP made significant strides in energy density and make up a significant portion of shorter range vehicles particularly in China.
 
OP
OP
coolshades

coolshades

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Threads
64
Messages
464
Reaction score
303
Location
UK
Vehicles
Jaguar XF -> Mach E AWD ER, Rapid Red
Country flag
So what I am leading to, is our battery tech current or we have fallen by the wayside
 

noway

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
227
Reaction score
236
Location
Norway
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E First Edition
Occupation
Software developer
Country flag
it depends.. LFP is "newer" but has been patented and by that reason "could not" be used in north america until late last year, but there was some kind of agreement and/or lack of patent i China that it could be used in China as long as it was not exported, so LFPs have been used for a significant amount of time in China, and what we get now is the result if an industry already existing in China for producing those.

There is a third chemistry, the NCA, low cobalt batteries used by Tesla in cars not using LFPs. NCAs has lower life span (degrades in less cycles, but might not really matter in large batteries) than NMCs, less safety (does not seem to matter in reality), requires more heat to charge but are cheaper to make.

The NMC chemistry is kind of in the middle of LFP and NCA, it is giving the most kWh for the weight and size (if I remember correctly). Cost more than NCA to make. LFPs require a significant more space to give the same amount of kWh, so they are not just drop in replacements. NCAs need more heat to charge than NMC, but LFP require even more heat. On the other side, LFPs is virtually impossible to burn or explode, so they do not require then same packaging as NCA or NMC.

NCA and NMC is basically the same in terms of energy density in both weight and volume, but NCA is slightly better (but degrades faster).
 


Sam2084

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
May 3, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
264
Reaction score
364
Location
Madison, WI
Vehicles
2007 CR-V, E4X Ordered
Occupation
Engineering
Country flag
LFP batteries are cheaper, heavier, don’t have experience degradation at max or min capacity, and have worse power output/input when compared to other common chemistrys. Tesla is only moving to them on their standard range cars since they are cheap, but it does negatively affect their performance dropping 0-60 by at least a second and slowing charging. Their next gen batteries will not be LFP.

End of the day it’s just a different design choice.
 

highland58

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
1,059
Reaction score
1,279
Location
Seattle area
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E GT, 2023 Bolt EUV, 2018 F150 XLT
Occupation
IT Solutions Architect
Country flag
It is NMC. A higher nickel variant (622) produced by a company from Korea called Posco. NMC varieties have been widely used in EV's since the late 2000's. The technology was developed by Argonne National Labs for some variants and 3M.

LFP has been around a reasonably long time with the first widespread adoption being the A123 batteries that went into the original Fiskers in 2011 or so. LFP made significant strides in energy density and make up a significant portion of shorter range vehicles particularly in China.
Thank you for that info, NMC622 is less likely to have microcracking issues per this video:
EV Battery Health with Dr Jeff Dahn Dalhousie U
Sponsored

 
 




Top