Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced

[JTK44]

So you're saying the Tesla lease has artificially lower monthly payments because the residual value is improperly set too high. Got it.

I have always said that Options was a retail contract. See my post from June:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ndard-lease-similarities-and-differences.883/

Or search my post history. I've always said Options was 'lease-like' but not a lease. It's a retail installment contract with a balloon note.

I never said that the Tesla payments were low because the residual was artificially high. What I said was that the most important component was the monthly payment, not the residual, as 99% of all leases are "upside down" - the residual is higher than the FMV at lease end and that at lease end 85% of all cars are returned.

We know the monthly payment on the Model Y, with zero down is $633 per month:

We also know that if we finance the Model Y, the interest rate is 2.49%

If we use the same interest rate of 2.49%, the residual comes to $31,506, or 62%. Remember you have to add the destination charges to the MSRP of $49,990

With the Model Y in high demand, there is a 3 to 6 week wait, I think Musk is correct in thinking that the Model Y will hold, relatively speaking, a high percentage of if its vale.

To me 62% does not seem unreasonable.

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[SoriceConsulting]

Had a Murano, tranny went after 216000kms warranty covered until 200k kms. Paid to switch, new tranny defective, switched under warranty. Then 3 months later AC went. Traded it in for a brand new Rogue. 3 yrs later tranny had issues. switched tranny oil pump under warranty. Now several places with rust and corrosion starting even though car was rust proofed and paint treated. Paint quality is shit.
I probably own the last best Nissan made 2004 Sentra SpecV. I dont trust any of their new cars. You wont find many big nissan fans like me. I am pretty good friends with the service dept guys at my delership but I told them that the Rogue will be my last Nissan for a while cause i dont trust the quality. They told me its something that other customers have told them lately. This is why I was switching to Ford and wanted the MachE. The Ariya "looks" interesting but I am a man of my word and its probably 3rd on my list of EV's I would consider. Yes I'd put it after the ID.4 and maybe tied with the Y.

kryden99, sorry you had so many problems! Luck of the draw? I've owned 3 Muranos and never had an issue (2014, 2008, 2004).

I would MUCH prefer the MachE, but will need to keep an open mind. Hope Ford is reading these forums and sees the dilemma many of us are facing.

Looks like top of the line Ariya will be about $45,000. Let's go with $50,000 to play it safe.

In NJ, that means:
Price: $50,0000
Less Fed credit of $7,500
$42,500
Less NJ rebate of $5,000
$37,500

That's without any incentives, etc. and not sure what their lease options will be.

As I said - I prefer the MachE, but the Ariya is on my radar....

 

[kdryden99]

kryden99, sorry you had so many problems! Luck of the draw? I've owned 3 Muranos and never had an issue (2014, 2008, 2004).

I would MUCH prefer the MachE, but will need to keep an open mind. Hope Ford is reading these forums and sees the dilemma many of us are facing.

Looks like top of the line Ariya will be about $45,000. Let's go with $50,000 to play it safe.

In NJ, that means:
Price: $50,0000
Less Fed credit of $7,500
$42,500
Less NJ rebate of $5,000
$37,500

That's without any incentives, etc. and not sure what their lease options will be.

As I said - I prefer the MachE, but the Ariya is on my radar....

Mine was a 2010, had it for 4 years (lease takeover) best deal ever. I miss that car very much.

 

[DBC]

can you show me where you posted something other than what I am saying. Because everyone on this forum is stating what I am saying. Why would I pay the same a month on a lease for the mach-e which gets the federal tax incentive vs a tesla that doesn’t get the tax incentive? Shouldn’t the mach-e be cheaper a month on a lease vs a model y?

I can do it a number of ways. Truth is, if you don't understand leasing then you can come to all manner of less than accurate conclusions. For instance, I can easily show that leasing the Model Y will be far more expensive than leasing a MME. For example:

So the Model Y is $612/month and the MME is $361.11. OMG, why is the Model Y so much expensive?

The simple answer is that you are comparing a lower trim MME with the Model Y. Now the better comparison would be to a Premium MME with AWD and the extended battery. Still the MME is less expensive:

The only way you get the Model Y to be competitive with a Premium MME is to skip the FSD, which of course means you are now comparing a lower trim Model Y with a higher trim MME. And of course you would need to add $15-$20 bucks a month to the MME options plan as the subscription fee. But as the comparison gets close the Model Y is over a $100/month more. And even if you compare the Model Y without FSD to the Premium MME with Hands Free Driving (which Tesla can't even offer), the difference is only twenty bucks or so.

 

[JTK44]

I went to your attachment that you told me to look at. It was useless and I told you that.

Tesla has a web site. Ford has a website. Both sites let you calculate monthly payments. Go to those sites and do what I've one and post the screen shots showing the monthly. Otherwise admit your numbers are bogus.

What if I don't want to front the $7,500 what are the numbers for a regular lease?

OK for the last time in ascending order of cost:

I have treated the taxes as following:

• Most states charge sales tax on EV's. If your state does not, then disregard the taxes.
• When you lease, 44 out of 50 states charge sales tax on the sum of the payments. I will use this method in computing taxes: monthly payment X 36 X 8.625% divided by 36 (months)
• Where I live the sales tax is 8.625%. Some states have higher and some states have lower taxes.

Tesla Model Y Lease:

The monthly payment for the Model Y is $633. The sales tax, $633 X 36, $22,788 X 8.625% is $1,966, monthly $55.

Total monthly payment including tax $688.

Premium AWD LR: Option plan:

The first example will use:

• Full Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a down payment
• Include the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments come to $675.

As this is a sale and not a lease, the sales tax is calculated on the Sales Price, $55,800 X 8.625%, $4,813. This is $134 a month.

Total monthly payment including tax $809.

The second example is without the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments are $749 a month. The sales tax is the same, $4,813. The monthly tax payments are $134.

Total monthly payment including tax $883 a month.

Nest is a typical lease assuming:

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 57%
• Interest rate of 5.4%

The residual and interest rate have been posted by others.

The monthly payments are $864. The sales tax, $864 X 36, $31,104 X 8.625% is $2,672, monthly is $75

Total monthly payment including tax $939.

Now here is what a "normal lease" should look like for 36 months, 10K per year:

If Ford offered this lease, it would make sense

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 54%
• Interest rate of 3%
• Includes Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a cap cost reduction

The monthly payments come to $603 a month. Sales tax is $603 X 36, $21,708 X 8.625% $1,872, monthly payment is $52.


Total monthly payment including tax $655.

This monthly payment including tax is less than the Model Y as you expect, as the MSRP of the Premium LR AWD, $55,8000 less the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500, $48,300 is less than the MSRP of the Model Y, $51,190.

So here is what we have for monthly payments, including tax:

• Model Y: $688
• Premium AWD LR with $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $809
• Premium AWD LR without $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $883
• Lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 57%, interest 5.4% $939
• Normal lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 54%, interest 3%, Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 included $655

If my math is incorrect please advise.

Hope this clarifies once and for all.

 

[kdryden99]

I can do it a number of ways. Truth is, if you don't understand leasing then you can come to all manner of less than accurate conclusions. For instance, I can easily show that leasing the Model Y will be far more expensive than leasing a MME. For example:

So the Model Y is $612/month and the MME is $361.11. OMG, why is the Model Y so much expensive?

The simple answer is that you are comparing a lower trim MME with the Model Y. Now the better comparison would be to a Premium MME with AWD and the extended battery. Still the MME is less expensive:

The only way you get the Model Y to be competitive with a Premium MME is to skip the FSD, which of course means you are now comparing a lower trim Model Y with a higher trim MME. And of course you would need to add $15-$20 bucks a month to the MME options plan as the subscription fee. But as the comparison gets close the Model Y is over a $100/month more. And even if you compare the Model Y without FSD to the Premium MME with Hands Free Driving (which Tesla can't even offer), the difference is only twenty bucks or so.

DBC i appreciate your help. Again i still think we need to end this back and forth. Just realize that your last screenshot includes a 13500 dowpayment on top of the incentives.

 

[JTK44]

I can do it a number of ways. Truth is, if you don't understand leasing then you can come to all manner of less than accurate conclusions. For instance, I can easily show that leasing the Model Y will be far more expensive than leasing a MME. For example:

So the Model Y is $612/month and the MME is $361.11. OMG, why is the Model Y so much expensive?

The simple answer is that you are comparing a lower trim MME with the Model Y. Now the better comparison would be to a Premium MME with AWD and the extended battery. Still the MME is less expensive:

The only way you get the Model Y to be competitive with a Premium MME is to skip the FSD, which of course means you are now comparing a lower trim Model Y with a higher trim MME. And of course you would need to add $15-$20 bucks a month to the MME options plan as the subscription fee. But as the comparison gets close the Model Y is over a $100/month more. And even if you compare the Model Y without FSD to the Premium MME with Hands Free Driving (which Tesla can't even offer), the difference is only twenty bucks or so.

Not to get political, but you remind me of the present occupant of the White House:

He thinks that by repeating inaccurate information over and over again, somehow it will become true.

What most of us are doing here is the following:

• The first rule of leasing is put down as little as possible. Everything including sales tax, if any, acquisition fee should be rolled into the lease. Only rookies, who have never leased before put money down.
• We are comparing the Model Y, with a range of over 300 miles that is AWD to the Premium LR AWD.

What you are doing is comparing the select RWD to the Model Y.

That is of no use to any of us.

 

[JoseLuisDeLaCruz]

Not to get political, but you remind me of the present occupant of the White House:

He thinks that by repeating inaccurate information over and over again, somehow it will become true.

What most of us are doing here is the following:

• The first rule of leasing is put down as little as possible. Everything including sales tax, if any, acquisition fee should be rolled into the lease. Only rookies, who have never leased before put money down.
• We are comparing the Model Y, with a range of over 300 miles that is AWD to the Premium LR AWD.

What you are doing is comparing the select RWD to the Model Y.

That is of no use to any of us.

Haha yeah that comparison you are making is useless! Sorry but it is.....lol

 

[JoseLuisDeLaCruz]

OK for the last time in ascending order of cost:

I have treated the taxes as following:

• Most states charge sales tax on EV's. If your state does not, then disregard the taxes.
• When you lease, 44 out of 50 states charge sales tax on the sum of the payments. I will use this method in computing taxes: monthly payment X 36 X 8.625% divided by 36 (months)
• Where I live the sales tax is 8.625%. Some states have higher and some states have lower taxes.

Tesla Model Y Lease:

The monthly payment for the Model Y is $633. The sales tax, $633 X 36, $22,788 X 8.625% is $1,966, monthly $55.

Total monthly payment including tax $688.

Premium AWD LR: Option plan:

The first example will use:

• Full Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a down payment
• Include the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments come to $675.

As this is a sale and not a lease, the sales tax is calculated on the Sales Price, $55,800 X 8.625%, $4,813. This is $134 a month.

Total monthly payment including tax $809.

The second example is without the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments are $749 a month. The sales tax is the same, $4,813. The monthly tax payments are $134.

Total monthly payment including tax $883 a month.

Nest is a typical lease assuming:

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 57%
• Interest rate of 5.4%

The residual and interest rate have been posted by others.

The monthly payments are $864. The sales tax, $864 X 36, $31,104 X 8.625% is $2,672, monthly is $75

Total monthly payment including tax $939.

Now here is what a "normal lease" should look like for 36 months, 10K per year:

If Ford offered this lease, it would make sense

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 54%
• Interest rate of 3%
• Includes Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a cap cost reduction

The monthly payments come to $603 a month. Sales tax is $603 X 36, $21,708 X 8.625% $1,872, monthly payment is $52.


Total monthly payment including tax $655.

This monthly payment including tax is less than the Model Y as you expect, as the MSRP of the Premium LR AWD, $55,8000 less the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500, $48,300 is less than the MSRP of the Model Y, $51,190.

So here is what we have for monthly payments, including tax:

• Model Y: $688
• Premium AWD LR with $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $809
• Premium AWD LR without $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $883
• Lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 57%, interest 5.4% $939
• Normal lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 54%, interest 3%, Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 included $655

If my math is incorrect please advise.

Hope this clarifies once and for all.

Damn so you telling me I am going to have to get the Tesla Model Y because Ford is stupid! Ugh! Smh! Thanks for this detailed breakdown.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

OK for the last time in ascending order of cost:

I have treated the taxes as following:

• Most states charge sales tax on EV's. If your state does not, then disregard the taxes.
• When you lease, 44 out of 50 states charge sales tax on the sum of the payments. I will use this method in computing taxes: monthly payment X 36 X 8.625% divided by 36 (months)
• Where I live the sales tax is 8.625%. Some states have higher and some states have lower taxes.

Tesla Model Y Lease:

The monthly payment for the Model Y is $633. The sales tax, $633 X 36, $22,788 X 8.625% is $1,966, monthly $55.

Total monthly payment including tax $688.

Premium AWD LR: Option plan:

The first example will use:

• Full Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a down payment
• Include the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments come to $675.

As this is a sale and not a lease, the sales tax is calculated on the Sales Price, $55,800 X 8.625%, $4,813. This is $134 a month.

Total monthly payment including tax $809.

The second example is without the $2,500 incentive:

The monthly payments are $749 a month. The sales tax is the same, $4,813. The monthly tax payments are $134.

Total monthly payment including tax $883 a month.

Nest is a typical lease assuming:

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 57%
• Interest rate of 5.4%

The residual and interest rate have been posted by others.

The monthly payments are $864. The sales tax, $864 X 36, $31,104 X 8.625% is $2,672, monthly is $75

Total monthly payment including tax $939.

Now here is what a "normal lease" should look like for 36 months, 10K per year:

If Ford offered this lease, it would make sense

• MSRP $55,800
• Residual of 54%
• Interest rate of 3%
• Includes Federal tax credit of $7,500 as a cap cost reduction

The monthly payments come to $603 a month. Sales tax is $603 X 36, $21,708 X 8.625% $1,872, monthly payment is $52.


Total monthly payment including tax $655.

This monthly payment including tax is less than the Model Y as you expect, as the MSRP of the Premium LR AWD, $55,8000 less the Federal Tax Credit of $7,500, $48,300 is less than the MSRP of the Model Y, $51,190.

So here is what we have for monthly payments, including tax:

• Model Y: $688
• Premium AWD LR with $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $809
• Premium AWD LR without $2500 incentive and Federal Tax Credit $883
• Lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 57%, interest 5.4% $939
• Normal lease on Premium AWD LR, residual 54%, interest 3%, Federal Tax Credit of $7,500 included $655

If my math is incorrect please advise.

Hope this clarifies once and for all.

I think your math is wrong on the Ford options. You’re assuming sales tax for the full MSRP. Unless the balloon payment doesn’t involve any tax, you’d be getting double-taxed for residual amount the same MSRP. Wouldn’t the tax component just be on the MSRP-balloon? A dealer would be able to price out.

 

[kdryden99]

I think your math is wrong on the Ford options. You’re assuming sales tax for the full MSRP. Unless the balloon payment doesn’t involve any tax, you’d be getting double-taxed for residual amount the same MSRP. Wouldn’t the tax component just be on the MSRP-balloon? A dealer would be able to price out.

Even if it did your looking at a 50$ /month difference not much

 

[hybrid2bev]

I think your math is wrong on the Ford options. You’re assuming sales tax for the full MSRP. Unless the balloon payment doesn’t involve any tax, you’d be getting double-taxed for residual amount the same MSRP. Wouldn’t the tax component just be on the MSRP-balloon? A dealer would be able to price out.

Because Options is a retail installment contract it is taxed the same as a normal retail transaction in your jurisdiction. In most cases the tax is on the full cash selling price.

 

[kdryden99]

Because Options is a retail installment contract it is taxed the same as a normal retail transaction in your jurisdiction. In most cases the tax is on the full cash selling price.

So you pay the tax upfront?

 

[JTK44]

I think your math is wrong on the Ford options. You’re assuming sales tax for the full MSRP. Unless the balloon payment doesn’t involve any tax, you’d be getting double-taxed for residual amount the same MSRP. Wouldn’t the tax component just be on the MSRP-balloon? A dealer would be able to price out.

There will be no sales tax on the balloon: The balloon is just another payment.

The Balloon is not like the residual in a lease: If at the end of your lease, if you buy the car, there is sales tax on the residual.

So with the Option plan there is no double taxation.

The Ford Option plan is not a lease: it is a sale: the title to the vehicle is in your name. In a lease in the lessor: Ford Financial Credit. As the title is in your name, this permits you to get the Federal Tax Credit, up to $7,500, on your tax return in the year when you register the car.

When you lease, Ford Financial the owner, gets the Federal Tax Credit.

The sales tax collected is on the sales price presently MSRP. Any down payment does not reduce your sales tax.

The one exception is when you trade in your car. The value of your trade reduces the sales price on which the sales tax is based.

FYI, every other manufacturer I can think of , includes as "cap cost reduction" the Federal Tax credit in the amount of $7,500 in their leases. This way the lessee gets the benefit of the tax credit.

Ford Financial is the only manufacture I know of who does not pass along the tax credit, instead they keep it. That is why a lease on the MME is so expensive.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[JTK44]

Because Options is a retail installment contract it is taxed the same as a normal retail transaction in your jurisdiction. In most cases the tax is on the full cash selling price.

Correct!

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