No Haggle Pricing coming in 2024 (Ford EVs)

[bp99]

My Nephew is the GM at a local Dealership in the area. You were suggesting in an earlier post that MSRP was invoice. It is not. I went onto to prove to you that the same Mach-E's are being advertised for $1,700 under MSRP. They are still making money on them with this reduced pricing. If MSRP were invoice (as you suggested) they would in effect be losing money by selling under MSRP in your world.

The last few years have been a windfall for the owners of the Dealership's according to my nephew. Many people were getting "raped" and didn't even know it. I have no love for any dealership and the "free" market was being abused by the elites for the last few years. They received PPP money AND substantial profits on top of that. If you don't regulate things, people find ways to take advantage of the "ill-informed". A free market comes with abuses until they get checked. Just pick up a history book and take a look at past abuses.

While I see a free market price being attractive to those that can haggle, I also see fixed prices curb the abuse to a certain extent. Once again, those Dealership's will find another avenue of taking advantage of the weak minded.

Dealers were not 'raping' anyone. Yes, they were earning extra profit per car sold with ADM. They were only able to charge ADM because demand was greater than supply while interest rates were also very low. This is how market economies work. Plenty of people were deciding to not purchase because of the ADM. Plenty of people also felt that that price, while higher than they'd prefer, was still palatable.

If you want government regulated pricing to check 'abuses' of big bad Capitalists, expect to see shortages when demand is higher than supply at that price point. Even with ADM, it was nearly impossible to find many models on lots. Ford is changing nothing from the consumer's point of view with no haggle pricing. It's just that Ford will adjust the price rather than the dealer adjusting it. On average, prices will be higher as dealers won't be able to offer deals by choosing to be low margin/high volume. Ford will be getting more revenue in seller's markets rather than the dealer getting ADM. Tesla's price changes the past couple years are a perfect example.

Often when dealers advertise deals like $1700 under MSRP it's because they're getting rebates/incentives from the manufacturer. Or, it's because they have a glut on their lot and it's costing them more money to keep the cars than it would be to discount and sell immediately.

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[Mach1E]

My Nephew is the GM at a local Dealership in the area. You were suggesting in an earlier post that MSRP was invoice. It is not. I went onto to prove to you that the same Mach-E's are being advertised for $1,700 under MSRP. They are still making money on them with this reduced pricing. If MSRP were invoice (as you suggested) they would in effect be losing money by selling under MSRP in your world.

The last few years have been a windfall for the owners of the Dealership's according to my nephew. Many people were getting "raped" and didn't even know it. I have no love for any dealership and the "free" market was being abused by the elites for the last few years. They received PPP money AND substantial profits on top of that. If you don't regulate things, people find ways to take advantage of the "ill-informed". A free market comes with abuses until they get checked. Just pick up a history book and take a look at past abuses.

While I see a free market price being attractive to those that can haggle, I also see fixed prices curb the abuse to a certain extent. Once again, those Dealership's will find another avenue of taking advantage of the weak minded.

Is your nephew a GM at a Ford dealer?

Actually, that detail doesn’t matter, because invoice is MSRP on the Mach E. I’m not “suggesting” it, it’s just plain fact.

Dealers still make money selling vehicles at invoice though. If you’re curious how, just google or ask your nephew.

A few sources of invoice being MSRP-

https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang-mach-e/2023/msrp/

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2023/ford/mustang-mach-e/select-rwd

 

[Jimrpa]

I hope X-Plan comes back ?

 

[DennisD]

Is your nephew a GM at a Ford dealer?

Actually, that detail doesn’t matter, because invoice is MSRP on the Mach E. I’m not “suggesting” it, it’s just plain fact.

Dealers still make money selling vehicles at invoice though. If you’re curious how, just google or ask your nephew.

A few sources of invoice being MSRP-

https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang-mach-e/2023/msrp/

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2023/ford/mustang-mach-e/select-rwd

Depending on how big the Dealership is and how many they sell, the Dealership's usually get "dealer holdback" which in some cases account up to around 3K per vehicle or around 5%. This amount varies from month to month and Dealership to Dealership.

So in the technical sense, the invoice (amount paid in the end) is less than the MSRP in most cases. The Dealership gets their money back AFTER they pay Ford. I realize that they advertise this as the same but once again, it isn't. It almost mirrors what happened to me with a Toyota back in 2015. They (the Dealership) advertised the price of the car as 5k off MSRP but they added on paint protection in which could not be deleted. So in effect, they were able to say they sold me the car for 5k under MSRP. I then had to pay them $500 for paint protection that was applied. In the end, I paid $4,500 off MSRP when the dust settled.

It is the same crap that they pull most of the time.

 

[CmndrNemo]

Maybe the funniest thing is that for the last few years almost everyone paid either MSRP or X plan. And MSRP actually WAS “invoice minus rebates.” Sounds pretty “no haggle” to me.

I'm a bit confused by that. Dealers near me were taking MSRP and adding $2k to even a crazy $15k on vehicles.

What Ford calls “MSRP” and “Invoice” are the same. The dealer gets paid for each car sold based on the criteria in post 10.
It’s just semantics.

My dealer uses invoice and MSRP interchangeably when speaking about my vehicle. When the MSRP dropped they gave me a new invoice matching the new MSRP.

 

[DennisD]

Dealers were not 'raping' anyone. Yes, they were earning extra profit per car sold with ADM. They were only able to charge ADM because demand was greater than supply while interest rates were also very low. This is how market economies work. Plenty of people were deciding to not purchase because of the ADM. Plenty of people also felt that that price, while higher than they'd prefer, was still palatable.

If you want government regulated pricing to check 'abuses' of big bad Capitalists, expect to see shortages when demand is higher than supply at that price point. Even with ADM, it was nearly impossible to find many models on lots. Ford is changing nothing from the consumer's point of view with no haggle pricing. It's just that Ford will adjust the price rather than the dealer adjusting it. On average, prices will be higher as dealers won't be able to offer deals by choosing to be low margin/high volume. Ford will be getting more revenue in seller's markets rather than the dealer getting ADM. Tesla's price changes the past couple years are a perfect example.

Often when dealers advertise deals like $1700 under MSRP it's because they're getting rebates/incentives from the manufacturer. Or, it's because they have a glut on their lot and it's costing them more money to keep the cars than it would be to discount and sell immediately.

Imagine that you came crawling out of the dessert and I had the only bottle of water available. In knowing this, I charged you $10,000 for the bottle of water. Yes, you could have turned it down but you were very thirsty.

Btw, the bottle of water only cost me $1.00

That is how the "free market" works with no checks and balances.

Oh, and there is a guy on the street defending me in doing this. (that guy would be you in this example)

Hopefully you never get thirsty my friend. ?

 

[Mach1E]

I'm a bit confused by that. Dealers near me were taking MSRP and adding $2k to even a crazy $15k on vehicles.




My dealer uses invoice and MSRP interchangeably when speaking about my vehicle. When the MSRP dropped they gave me a new invoice matching the new MSRP.

California was a bit different than the rest of the country for sure. Many cases of ADM more rampant there. But still, even in California most paid MSRP.

 

[Mach1E]

Depending on how big the Dealership is and how many they sell, the Dealership's usually get "dealer holdback" which in some cases account up to around 3K per vehicle or around 5%. This amount varies from month to month and Dealership to Dealership.

So in the technical sense, the invoice (amount paid in the end) is less than the MSRP in most cases. The Dealership gets their money back AFTER they pay Ford. I realize that they advertise this as the same but once again, it isn't. It almost mirrors what happened to me with a Toyota back in 2015. They (the Dealership) advertised the price of the car as 5k off MSRP but they added on paint protection in which could not be deleted. So in effect, they were able to say they sold me the car for 5k under MSRP. I then had to pay them $500 for paint protection that was applied. In the end, I paid $4,500 off MSRP when the dust settled.

It is the same crap that they pull most of the time.

Again, it’s pretty straightforward.

MSRP is invoice on the Mach E.

Holdback is a different thing altogether, but yeah, that’s one of the ways they make money.

And like I said earlier, it’s not really different to how cars have been sold in the last 20 years-

Typical selling price for pretty much every car sold in the US in the last 20 years-

Invoice minus rebates.

In the case of the Mach E, “invoice minus rebates” = MSRP.

 

[Mach1E]

Imagine that you came crawling out of the dessert and I had the only bottle of water available. In knowing this, I charged you $10,000 for the bottle of water. Yes, you could have turned it down but you were very thirsty.

Btw, the bottle of water only cost me $1.00

That is how the "free market" works with no checks and balances.

Oh, and there is a guy on the street defending me in doing this. (that guy would be you in this example)

Hopefully you never get thirsty my friend. ?

FWIW, I agree about the greedy dealer dealers the last few years.

Just look at the profit increases from 2019-2022 for car dealerships. It was obscene.

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