No live power usage data?

[devmach-e]

Are you saying that running the heat resulted in no actual loss of range?

There was a lowering of the expected range. That doesn’t mean I lost that specific amount of range at that particular point in time. Many factors had an affect, including the speed I drove at, elevations changes, head winds, and whether the heat actually was used. Just turning it on, but not actually having heat come out, was enough to drop the guesstimated range.

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[Space_Pony]

wait wait wait.....you think the heater is the only reason this is happening?

Density of the air....decrease in the efficiency of the battery chemistry, it's not just the PTC.

Range is far more complicated then the heater's power draw.

You'll find the guess-o-meter is hopelessly pessimistic in the cold.


just an FYI - when put on auto the heater runs only on the floor vents because heat rises, air only runs out of the dash because cool air sinks....they REALLY try to maximize it's efficiency. Plus the heater might just run to keep the battery warm and there's nothing you can do about that.

I find it interesting that your profile shows that you just joined this club a week ago but seem to believe you're an expert.
I'm sure there's more to that story.
It seems odd that all of the data is available but you have to plug a device into the obd port. Some will say that info is for a service tech, but from my experience, they have no desire to review this data.

 

[eponey]

I find it interesting that your profile shows that you just joined this club a week ago but seem to believe you're an expert.
I'm sure there's more to that story.
It seems odd that all of the data is available but you have to plug a device into the obd port. Some will say that info is for a service tech, but from my experience, they have no desire to review this data.

Belief is not a variable in the equation for drag. VROOM VROOM

 

[devmach-e]

I'm pretty interested that this is your take on this, you of all people should know that the majority of that information especially in real time just doesn't matter, in fact serves little to no purpose outside of some aggregated minimum for utility, which is provided by ford and along with most of the design queues of this car is simply omitted, aren't you an engineer?

Does knowing how the world works at the sub-atomic level effect my interactions with the world? Definitely no. Does knowing how the planets orbit the sun and how they interact with eachother alter how I live my life? Not really. But I like knowing things that interest me. And knowing how much power my car is consuming or regenerating is useful info to me, if only at esoteric level. Will it affect my driving habits? Probably not. But it's nice to have the option to see it easily. I also had a Bolt and love the kW meter that was available. It is something I definitely miss in the Mach-E. The CarScanner app gives me some of that functionality back, for which I'm grateful. Just annoyed that Ford doesn't provide it.

 

[eponey]

...

Of course I am an enthusiast as well I am on this forum after all.

But I tried to make a rational argument that the knowledge of the current power draw of the car, while interesting, has limited utility as a measure of anything. So your car drew 47KW for 45 seconds, what does that mean to you?

What we've painfully established is the GOM needs to be more transparent and potentially improved and ford is certainly remiss for not including a prominent measure of efficiency in some sort of meaningful aggregate measure...but they do, in the trip app...with all the other desired information.

 

[devmach-e]

Of course I am an enthusiast as well I am on this forum after all.

But I tried to make a rational argument that the knowledge of the current power draw of the car, while interesting, has limited utility as a measure of anything. So your car drew 47KW for 45 seconds, what does that mean to you?

What we've painfully established is the GOM needs to be more transparent and potentially improved and ford is certainly remiss for not including a prominent measure of efficiency in some sort of meaningful aggregate measure...but they do, in the trip app...with all the other desired information.

It is useful information to see how various roads impact my power consumption on my commute to work. How a small incline or decline affects things. A quantification of that is helpful to me to better understand the impacts. And to be able to show that in real-time on the dash would be easy to implement. GM certainly was able to do so with the Bolt. Has it killed me for the last 2.5 years to not have it? Obviously not. Doesn't mean I don't still pine for it.

 

[eponey]

It is useful information to see how various roads impact my power consumption on my commute to work. How a small incline or decline affects things. A quantification of that is helpful to me to better understand the impacts. And to be able to show that in real-time on the dash would be easy to implement. GM certainly was able to do so with the Bolt. Has it killed me for the last 2.5 years to not have it? Obviously not. Doesn't mean I don't still pine for it.

This is a VERY simplified version of how your EV calculates its range for a given change in altitude.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-physics/chapter/7-3-gravitational-potential-energy/

Go wild, the car is obviously more complicated but it's readily calculatable, the amount of energy needed to move your car from point a to point be given a speed, distance and total change in altitude. We could build a better guess o meter but probably not, anybody want to try?

Here's the equation for drag -

.

Rolling resistance of a tire - F_r = Crr * N.

Energy = Force x Distance.

We don't need no stinking power meter.

Or we can ask google to put it together for us: E = (1/2) * m * v^2 + m * g * Δh.

m = mass, v = velocity g= gravity Δh = change in height. Calculates energy.

Feel free to add the energy used by the PTC.

 

[devmach-e]

This is a VERY simplified version of how your EV calculates its range for a given change in altitude.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-physics/chapter/7-3-gravitational-potential-energy/

Go wild, the car is obviously more complicated but it's readily calculatable, the amount of energy needed to move your car from point a to point be given a speed, distance and total change in altitude. We could build a better guess o meter but probably not, anybody want to try?

Here's the equation for drag -

.

Rolling resistance of a tire - F_r = Crr * N.

Energy = Force x Distance.

We don't need no stinking power meter.

Or we can ask google to put it together for us: E = (1/2) * m * v^2 + m * g * Δh.

m = mass, v = velocity g= gravity Δh = change in height. Calculates energy.

Feel free to add the energy used by the PTC.

I'm not after how the guess-o-meter calculates in real time the impact to range when going up a hill. What I want to know is what is my kW draw from the battery at that moment in time for a specific speed. Or how much I am regenerating going down the same hill in the opposite direction. And with the use of CarScanner and Apple CarPlay, I can access that information on the infotainment screen now. But it sure would be nice to just have it on the instrument cluster in front of the steering wheel like my Bolt had.

 

[eponey]

I'm not after how the guess-o-meter calculates in real time the impact to range when going up a hill. What I want to know is what is my kW draw from the battery at that moment in time for a specific speed. Or how much I am regenerating going down the same hill in the opposite direction. And with the use of CarScanner and Apple CarPlay, I can access that information on the infotainment screen now. But it sure would be nice to just have it on the instrument cluster in front of the steering wheel like my Bolt had.

My car, your car, the bolt, within a margin, all expend a similar amount of energy (at base, mass over distance for a given change in height) to move from point A to point B, grossly simplified (obviously drag and rolling resistance etc is different).

Don't worry we can just keep layering it on until you get it, or I can give up on the thread.

I almost feel like we could derive a new GOM formula if we tried hard enough, anyone interested? We could have ford check our work.

Then again all the apps just use something sane like mi/kw and multiply it by the kw's, but I'm all for insanity.

 

[devmach-e]

My car, your car, the bolt, within a margin, all expend a similar amount of energy (at base, mass over distance for a given change in height) to move from point A to point B, grossly simplified (obviously drag and rolling resistance etc is different).

Don't worry we can just keep layering it on until you get it, or I can give up on the thread.

I'm talking about instantaneous readings, which I used to have on my Bolt. Not the 5/10/15/20/25/30 minute efficiency report, which I also had on my Bolt. I want to know that when I go down the hill by my house, I'm regenerating upwards of 70 kW when braking. Or when accelerating from 0-60 I hit a peak of 175 kW. Or that under normal cruise control on a flat roadway going 75 MPH I'm only using 20 kW to keep the car going. I can see in realtime how speed affects things, etc. This has nothing to do with the GOM and the predicted range I might get. Why do I want this? Because it interests me.

 

[eponey]

I'm talking about instantaneous readings, which I used to have on my Bolt. Not the 5/10/15/20/25/30 minute efficiency report, which I also had on my Bolt. I want to know that when I go down the hill by my house, I'm regenerating upwards of 70 kW when braking. Or when accelerating from 0-60 I hit a peak of 175 kW. Or that under normal cruise control on a flat roadway going 75 MPH I'm only using 20 kW to keep the car going. I can see in realtime how speed affects things, etc. This has nothing to do with the GOM and the predicted range I might get. Why do I want this? Because it interests me.

IT DOESNT MATTER. Let's pretend drag and friction don't exist - your car will use a predictable amount of energy to move from point a to point b with a change in height. How you do this DOES NOT MATTER (except more speed increased drag and certainly does matter in real life).

An analogy for you, moving your car from point a to point b over change in height, lets pretend this amount is a soda. lets pretend drag doesn't exist, how fast or how slow you drink the soda doesn't matter, the same amount of soda will be expended both ways.

 

[devmach-e]

IT DOESNT MATTER. Let's pretend drag and friction don't exist - your car will use a predictable amount of energy to move from point a to point b with a change in height. How you do this DOES NOT MATTER (except more speed increased drag and certainly does matter).

I still want the real-time live data in front of me. And my car will not use a predictable amount of energy because of a number of factors go into it: speed, degree of incline, weather, air density, road conditions, etc. In the summer I can get 3.5 miles per kWh on my commute. In winter, it can drop to 2.5 miles per kWh.

 

[eponey]

I still want the real-time live data in front of me. And my car will not use a predictable amount of energy because of a number of factors go into it: speed, degree of incline, weather, air density, road conditions, etc. In the summer I can get 3.5 miles per kWh on my commute. In winter, it can drop to 2.5 miles per kWh.

The base of the equation is related to gravity which I certainly hope always exists and is the same for everyone on the planet, more or less.

 

[devmach-e]

The base of the equation is related to gravity which I certainly hope always exists and is the same for everyone on the planet, more or less.

You cannot ignore the other stuff as they have a demonstrable effect. Just ask any one who has run into unexpected headwinds that tanked their efficiency and range. Air density is a real factor, as are road conditions. They aren't negligible.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm a PID nerd.
I like to know what's going on under the hood, so to speak.
Given enough time monitoring various data streams, I better understand the machine. It's design. It's norms.

I'm more than willing to admit that most folks are NOT interested. And I don't think that reflects on them negatively in the least. Afterall, don't they say ignorance is bliss?

Not me though. Ignorance is pure torture. ???

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