Ontario EV Infrastructure Terrible

[Ajp247]

Recently took a trip from Windsor to Montreal and back. EVERY fast charger I stopped at had issues. Stations frequently down, energy output from chargers significantly below expected kW, customer service at stations no help. Canada is pushing for zero emissions vehicles but their infrastructure is pathetic. Very annoyed that a 1900km trip couldn't be more enjoyable.

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[Womps]

And no better here in Alberta.

 

[bellyer]

I just got back from a trip from Chicago up to Toronto over to Cooperstown, NY (in our F-150 Lightning, instead of our Mach-E). Before the trip, I was super excited to see that there was plenty of fast charging infrastructure around, but when we got there, we hit problem after problem with Ivy fast chargers. Thankfully, we did find an Electrify Canada location that had two working chargers of the four stalls, but the two that worked were actually quite great in terms of kw.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

energy output from chargers significantly below expected kW

Commenting on "significantly below" ... I'm wondering what your actual rate was vs. what was expected.

An extended range car can take on energy a little faster than a standard range car. The extended range car can charge at rates up to 150 kW. But ... only in ideal conditions. This means the battery state of charge needs to be on the low-ish side and the battery has to be not too hot and not too cold. If conditions are right and all the planets line up ... I get the max theoretical charge rate that will last just a couple of minutes and then it starts to drop. But I usually get more than a 100 kW rate while the battery is on the low-ish side of the state of charge. As it starts to fill up on charge, the rate will drop quite a bit and I'll watch the rate drop into the 90's and then 80's, etc. as it approaches an 80% state of charge.

On the other hand ... sometimes I arrive at a charger and plug in only to get ... maybe a 38 kW rate (on a station rated for 150 kW or even 350 kW). For Electrify Canada ... that's the fall-back rate that the station uses when something is wrong. If you are below a 50% state of charge and the station never exceeds 40 kW ... it usually means the station has some defect (e.g. cooling problem) and it is allowing a charge but keeping the rate slow to avoid damage. If there is another charge dispenser available, try switching chargers.

Having said that ... there are a staggering number of broken/damaged/limited chargers out there.

 

[Ajp247]

Commenting on "significantly below" ... I'm wondering what your actual rate was vs. what was expected.

An extended range car can take on energy a little faster than a standard range car. The extended range car can charge at rates up to 150 kW. But ... only in ideal conditions. This means the battery state of charge needs to be on the low-ish side and the battery has to be not too hot and not too cold. If conditions are right and all the planets line up ... I get the max theoretical charge rate that will last just a couple of minutes and then it starts to drop. But I usually get more than a 100 kW rate while the battery is on the low-ish side of the state of charge. As it starts to fill up on charge, the rate will drop quite a bit and I'll watch the rate drop into the 90's and then 80's, etc. as it approaches an 80% state of charge.

On the other hand ... sometimes I arrive at a charger and plug in only to get ... maybe a 38 kW rate (on a station rated for 150 kW or even 350 kW). For Electrify Canada ... that's the fall-back rate that the station uses when something is wrong. If you are below a 50% state of charge and the station never exceeds 40 kW ... it usually means the station has some defect (e.g. cooling problem) and it is allowing a charge but keeping the rate slow to avoid damage. If there is another charge dispenser available, try switching chargers.

Having said that ... there are a staggering number of broken/damaged/limited chargers out there.

I was at an ivy station with 4 ccs chargers. 1 was down completely, the other 3 only generated 38kW. Called customer service and they couldn't do anything about it. I was at 7% at that moment. Eventually after I unplugged and replugged a few times I got about 80kW.

I understand as the battery gets fuller the kW naturally drops, but even st 20% a lot of these chargers spit out 50 to 80Kw on a 150kW charger.

They should also bill per kW rather than time in my opinion.

 

[Tim_C]

OP - could you provide some details to your route, e.g. chargers used?

I've read that the chargers at the OnRoute rest stops, while more convenient, are generally bad. There are Electrify Canada chargers that require minor detours from the 401, but perform better (not perfect, but better).

I'm planning a similar route, Detroit to Quebec, in a couple weeks.

 

[Ajp247]

OP - could you provide some details to your route, e.g. chargers used?

I've read that the chargers at the OnRoute rest stops, while more convenient, are generally bad. There are Electrify Canada chargers that require minor detours from the 401, but perform better (not perfect, but better).

I'm planning a similar route, Detroit to Quebec, in a couple weeks.

Yes I will put together a document and post it for you no problem

 

[motown moproblems]

Heading up to Algonquin from Detroit this weekend. Did the same last year and the Ivy chargers were consistently terrible. Worst of all, the one I was counting on up in Huntsville for a morning top-off is now completely out of service. I'm planning to try to stick with mostly Electrify Canada stops this time around, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[Ajp247]

OP - could you provide some details to your route, e.g. chargers used?

I've read that the chargers at the OnRoute rest stops, while more convenient, are generally bad. There are Electrify Canada chargers that require minor detours from the 401, but perform better (not perfect, but better).

I'm planning a similar route, Detroit to Quebec, in a couple weeks.

 

[Tim_C]

It's somewhat encouraging that the OnRoute Ivy chargers never completely failed and caused you to find another site. I guess I have low expectations at this point . Your route also reminded me to look for a midway hotel with L2 charging, hopefully I can find somewhere with free charging.

 

[TTF]

"
I've read that the chargers at the OnRoute rest stops, while more convenient, are generally bad. There are Electrify Canada chargers that require minor detours from the 401, but perform better (not perfect, but better).

I'm planning a similar route, Detroit to Quebec, in a couple weeks. "

Here are two road trips that I have done this year. I do not like Ivy for sure, but this year they seemed to work fine for me. Last year, not so much. Same issues as the OP stated. I will head to Montreal and Quebec City in October and then Halifax in December. Enjoy your trip!

City

Pro

Brand / Type

Date

Time

kWh

km added

Start %

End %

% Added

Cost

$/kWh

Min / kWh

Trenton

ON

Ivy

23-05-2023​

00:27:00​

45.743

251​

21​

71​

50%​

$10.55​

$ 0.23

0.59

Mallorytown

ON

Ivy

23-05-2023​

00:22:00​

38.441

206​

35​

77​

42%​

$8.71​

$ 0.23

0.57

Gatineau

QC

Circuit Electric

24-05-2023​

01:58:00​

11.000

57​

44​

57​

13%​

$2.50​

$ 0.23

10.73

Gatineau

QC

Circuit Electric

25-05-2023​

04:35:00​

27.050

135​

29​

59​

30%​

$2.50​

$ 0.09

10.17

Gatineau

QC

Circuit Electric

25-05-2023​

04:03:00​

23.960

117​

54​

79​

25%​

$2.50​

$ 0.10

10.14

Trenton

ON

Ivy

26-05-2023​

00:50:00​

64.718

346​

7​

83​

76%​

$15.36​

$ 0.24

0.77

km

1112​

Total $

$42.12​

Toronto

ON

Flo

18-06-2023​

1:03:00​

30.522

179​

67​

100​

33%​

$15.27​

$ 0.50

2.06

Mallorytown

ON

Ivy

19-06-2023​

0:50:00​

62.386

272​

14​

84​

70%​

$14.89​

$ 0.24

0.80

Montreal

QC

Circuit Electric

20-06-2023​

3:22:00​

20.580

91​

28​

51​

23%​

$3.39​

$ 0.16

9.82

Montreal

QC

Tesla Dest

20-06-2023​

11:02:00​

46.400

262​

51​

100​

49%​

$ -

14.27

Odessa

ON

Ivy

23-06-2023​

0:29:00​

41.460

172​

25​

72​

47%​

$9.84​

$ 0.24

0.70

Oshawa

ON

Electrify Can

23-06-2023​

0:14:00​

25.954

109​

31​

60​

29%​

$8.93​

$ 0.34

0.54

Oshawa

ON

Electrify Can

23-06-2023

0:09:00​

14.743

61​

60​

76​

16%​

$5.15​

$ 0.35

0.61

km

1146​

Total $

$57.47​

 

[rkmoray]

I took a trip from Vaughan to Niagara on the lake last weekend in a AWD standard. Because of range anxiety and no chargers found in apps near the route, we ended up taking my wife's Subaru. Better infrastructure is absolutely needed.

 

[ATL]

They should also bill per kW rather than time in my opinion.

Until recently, per kWh (not kW) billing was not permitted in Canada, as it is not in some US states, I understand. Now that it is allowed, Ivy has committed to eventually changing over to that fairer system.

Now if they could only get their maintenance act in order! There is absolutely no excuse for not having sufficient repair crews on such an important highway to keep their units in tip-top condition.

 

[Shayne]

I have just been lucking out. To begin there were a couple 175 km apart and 320 km was a bit too much at 80% to miss that middle Ivy one. First year it was me and 2 working chargers. Then the Ivy became crowded, then one has not work for over half a year (by plugshare not still testing). Just in time they installed a Flo just outside of the big city and 245 km (155 miles) is doable at 80% so I skip the Ivy now and the Circuit Electric app/wallet works with Flo. Not crowded at my new stop yet and so far I have 2 working chargers to myself. It will get crowded, it is sad here, I have not tried over 50 KW charging yet as nothing higher than that is around. If you stay south it gets better. Ontario is an embarrassment and Canada is not far behind with no indication that will be changing any time soon. No rush until all our bush burns down is my guess.

 

[Pmullin7]

I have yet to find a high-speed charger in Ontario that comes close to it stated charge rate. Ivy is consistently the worst, 38. Kilowatts or as low as 30, Even in ideal conditions. I have yet to see anything better than 38 on Ivy.

Petro Canada advertises up to 350 kilowatt charging, which obviously my car can't achieve, but they maxed out at 45. I inquired of another user driving a Kia that theoretically could have used up to that limit, they came in with 10% battery and were charging at 28.

It seems impossible that all of these networks can be this bad. At least until I consider that they are all billing by the minute, which doesn't exactly motivate them to fix these issues. They wouldn't say it's a deliberate strategy on their part to maximize revenue, but it would work if so.

The change to per kilowatt hour billing can't come fast enough.

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