PaaK issues possible resolution with update. All trims / models.

[RickMachE]

Darren Palmer specifically said that the Gear Shift is updatable OTA. Curious as to what proof anyone has that it is not? Not conjecture, actual information?

When I took mine if for the loud charging noise TSB, the dealership was reluctant (i.e. said no) to apply any other updates, preferring to "wait and see what these updates fixed". They basically said that when the do too many updates and things aren't working properly, they can't diagnose how they went wrong.

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[generaltso]

Curious as to what proof anyone has that it is not? Not conjecture, actual information?

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ota-updates-technical-info.4923/

 

[RickMachE]

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ota-updates-technical-info.4923/

That was pointed out yesterday, but clearly not proof. It was discussed that either the manual is wrong, or Darren Palmer is wrong. For Darren to be wrong (watch the video), given how much emphasis he put on it, would be a surprise to me.

 

[generaltso]

That was pointed out yesterday, but clearly not proof. It was discussed that either the manual is wrong, or Darren Palmer is wrong. For Darren to be wrong (watch the video), given how much emphasis he put on it, would be a surprise to me.

You asked for something more than conjecture. Anything could have incorrect information, but I wouldn’t say that the service manual for the vehicle is conjecture. What kind of written proof are you looking for that doesn’t have the possibility of being wrong? I think it’s more likely that Darren misspoke. It wouldn’t be the first time. He also said that you will never have to worry about your 12v battery going dead.

 

[RickMachE]

Here's my perspective, which is the only one I think is right. ?

A Ford document says it's not updateable.

A senior Ford exec very close to the product says it is.

That's a tie. Therefore, there's no proof that it is not, until someone at Ford says it's not, or it gets updated OTA.

Because Ford has never printed incorrect information anywhere, right? That's the same as saying that Darren Palmer has misspoken before.

Besides, who gives a rat's behind if it is updatable OTA or not? Is there some neat and spiffy change you want? If it needs to be updated, and if it's not OTA-capable, then we'll all take it in at some point and get it done.

The amount of energy going into "what-ifs" and "look, this module has another pending update" on this forum is amazing. I'm waiting for the "oh crap, I just updated all my modules and turned my Mach-E into a Tesla" thread.

 

[generaltso]

Here's my perspective, which is the only one I think is right. ?

A Ford document says it's not updateable.

A senior Ford exec very close to the product says it is.

That's a tie. Therefore, there's no proof that it is not, until someone at Ford says it's not, or it gets updated OTA.

Right, the conflicting information is why there’s discussion in this thread about it and nobody knows for sure. But if the service manual can’t be trusted, what “non-conjecture” actual proof are you looking for? What if FDRS also said it’s not OTA updatable? Would that break the tie?

 

[RMoore]

@DevSecOps I probably missed this but is the tool that you are using to look up VIN numbers part of this package that also allows you to do the modifications or some other tool? I imagine there isn’t some website that we can go to to look this up ourselves, otherwise folks would do that rather than sending you a DM, correct? BTW, very nice of you to do this for folks!

 

[RickMachE]

@DevSecOps I probably missed this but is the tool that you are using to look up VIN numbers part of this package that also allows you to do the modifications or some other tool? I imagine there isn’t some website that we can go to to look this up ourselves, otherwise folks would do that rather than sending you a DM, correct? BTW, very nice of you to do this for folks!

There is no website. Only a Ford site, which you have to pay to have access to.

 

[Jimrpa]

Darren Palmer specifically said that the Gear Shift is updatable OTA. Curious as to what proof anyone has that it is not? Not conjecture, actual information?

When I took mine if for the loud charging noise TSB, the dealership was reluctant (i.e. said no) to apply any other updates, preferring to "wait and see what these updates fixed". They basically said that when the do too many updates and things aren't working properly, they can't diagnose how they went wrong.

Actually, that’s a valid, conservative troubleshooting methodology. You try one fix at a time as part of a problem diagnosis process.

 

[DevSecOps]

@DevSecOpsI imagine there isn’t some website that we can go to to look this up ourselves

Yeah, as was stated, unfortunately not! I wish it was that way, would have saved me $900 for the software. But that being said don't feel guilty sending me a VIN, I enjoy being able to help people where I can even though some of you piss me off (not you specifically RMoore) ?

 

[DevSecOps]

I get that but its like Apple saying there is a problem with your phone thats our fault.

Here's the issue, some of these updates may just do something like change the way an error is logged or fix a typo. We really don't have change logs associated with these updates unless there's a TSB or Recall tied to them. They could also be for edge case issues that rarely occur for most folk. Now for issues that are problematic I agree 100% and I hope that one day we will see these deployed via OTA as promised. Until then ... we have other ways.

 

[macgyver60]

Here's the issue, some of these updates may just do something like change the way an error is logged or fix a typo. We really don't have change logs associated with these updates unless there's a TSB or Recall tied to them. They could also be for edge case issues that rarely occur for most folk. Now for issues that are problematic I agree 100% and I hope that one day we will see these deployed via OTA as promised. Until then ... we have other ways.

what are the other ways? Very few people are going to have the equipment or the tech skills to attempt to do this themselves.

 

[DevSecOps]

what are the other ways? Very few people are going to have the equipment or the tech skills to attempt to do this themselves.

As we've discussed, you either have to do it yourself or convince your dealer. The other ways I'm referring to are the traditional ways of performing updates. Due to the lack of OTAs we have to do them the old school way.

 

[fallguy]

You can't tell by the car. My GTPE had a build date of late July and all of the newer vehicles that I've scanned have come back in need of it. If you DM me your VIN I will check it later tonight when I'm home and provide you a screen shot of what modules are needed.

PM sent, thanks.

 

[memcm_expert]

First and foremost: This is still a working theory and a few of us are trying to work out the bugs to see if indeed this is a fix for most users. What we know is that there is a module update for the first module in the chain of modules for PaaK. There are many cars that need updates to modules down the line from the RFA module that are also part of PaaK. I will keep this thread updated with our findings. As for now, I have a perfect PaaK experience with a FULLY updated MME. Prior to the update I had the below listed issues.

I originally posted this for those of us that have GT/GTPE models however @benk016 informed me that he noticed the same update being available on his previous FE, which I've since confirmed. This means that the update should be universal across all builds. I will refer to Ben's post here for more information.

If you face these issues:

• PaaK will take a long time to connect outside of the car when the doors are locked
• PaaK will take a while to be recognized as a key once inside the car
• PaaK will not work unless you open the FP App
• The vehicle will display "Key not found" even after starting the car

I fully updated my MME via FDRS, including an RFA Module update, and after many days using PaaK I can report that the distance that it senses me at is much greater (including walk-a-way, so I had to get used to that) and it has yet to fail or give no key errors. As an additional data point I am using Android.

What I do experience still is a very short delay from deep sleep. If the car has been off for a while I can approach the car without the vehicle knowing I'm there. Touching the door button wakes the car and 1 second later, pressing it again opens the door. This might be expected behavior from a dormant car for battery life.

To perform the update you could do it yourself via the guides and about a 1k investment in hardware or bring it to the dealer. My specific comments and pictures in regards to the update process can be found here.

Fun stats -

VIN Checks Performed - 45
VINs Needing Update - 35
VINs Already Updated - 10

One of the checks was on a GT, not yet delivered and just produced 3 weeks ago. It needed these updates. I would assume all new vehicles need the update even the ones rolling off the line.

Those that had older PaaK updates might need this update as well. There are two RFA module updates for older builds.

For OTA Reference - I've been asked a few times which modules can be updated via OTA. Here's the link.

Other things to try - remember that your phone needs to be excluded from power management features and it should also be given always gps access. By default these settings are not on. Also by default some OS' will only give you "while using the app" permissions. You'll need to manually grant FordPass those access levels. Remember that your phone has to be trying to connect to the car for PaaK to work.

Reset PaaK - If you perform the updates I would recommend resetting your PaaK settings which can be done in the car by going to Settings - General - Reset. Do not reset from the phone. This step, while annoying, eliminates a possible point of failure. Just like tech support for many electronics, reboot and reset are often the first steps. Remove the old Bluetooth connections from the phone before attempting to re-pair. The BT connection will not have a name, rather it just has the MAC address of the car's BT radio.

VIN Checks - I've done a lot of them... each one takes about 10 minutes so I'm not going to do any more. After doing so many, there's a clear denominator. If you have had a RFA or PaaK update after July 1, 2021 then you should have all the PaaK updates. If this is you then you most likely have a lot of other updates needed and you should get those installed. If you have never had an RFA or PaaK update then your car will need it (some will need 2 updates for the RFA). This even applies to the ones rolling off the line as of October.

#1 Question Received - How do you get the dealer to update the car. Short answer, I don't know. It's my experience that dealers only want to update what they have to. Unless there's an issue with a TSB or recall I don't suppose they will. You might get lucky, but some of these updates take 2+ hours to complete. Someone has to pay them to do that and without a TSB/Recall to bill back to corporate it's probably not gonna happen.

Well, it was good while it lasted. As I reported in another post, my PaaK was working perfectly after it was updated. It did this for 3 days. Then yesterday, I got the dreaded "No key detected" message. As usual, the car drove just fine after I cancelled the alert.

I really had high hopes about this update.

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