PaaK issues possible resolution with update. All trims / models.

[DevSecOps]

Well, it was good while it lasted. As I reported in another post, my PaaK was working perfectly after it was updated. It did this for 3 days. Then yesterday, I got the dreaded "No key detected" message. As usual, the car drove just fine after I cancelled the alert.

I really had high hopes about this update.

So before we jump to too many conclusions I would want to know the following because I don't think I ran your VIN so I can't look to see what you have going on.

1 - Did you reset your PaaK from the vehicle after the update?
2 - Did you update the car fully? The PaaK system has 4 modules in it's chain, not just the RFA. The RFA module is just the first in the chain.
3 - If you DM me your VIN we can take a look together.

I think it might be crucial to reset PaaK after every update, not just those related to the RFA module. I'm testing this theory right now and yesterday I made a post about it, but deleted it because I just don't have enough evidence gathered yet.

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[memcm_expert]

So before we jump to too many conclusions I would want to know the following because I don't think I ran your VIN so I can't look to see what you have going on.

1 - Did you reset your PaaK from the vehicle after the update?
2 - Did you update the car fully? The PaaK system has 4 modules in it's chain, not just the RFA. The RFA module is just the first in the chain.
3 - If you DM me your VIN we can take a look together.

I think it might be crucial to reset PaaK after every update, not just those related to the RFA module. I'm testing this theory right now and yesterday I made a post about it, but deleted it because I just don't have enough evidence gathered yet.

You actually ran my VIN yesterday. Lot's of updates according to Ford that still needs to be done. But, I am at 1.7 for power up now.

 

[scoopman]

Eh, think I'm just going to keep using the FOB, still doesn't seem like this is a good idea until there isn't a 6 page thread and consensus that it just works.

Also, key is considered the second factor and more secure still. Just seems this PAAK is a solution looking for a problem when you consider all the downsides.

 

[DevSecOps]

You actually ran my VIN yesterday. Lot's of updates according to Ford that still needs to be done. But, I am at 1.7 for power up now.

I have 5 pages of DMs with the subject VIN . Yes I did. So you still need the BCM update and that is part of the PaaK chain it's actually the module last in the chain in charge of opening the doors and starting the car.

Things I would do:

1 - Get the BCM updated
2 - Reset PaaK and start fresh

Eh, think I'm just going to keep using the FOB, still doesn't seem like this is a good idea until there isn't a 6 page thread and consensus that it just works.

Oh c'mon ... have some of that candy from last night and cheer up! It works, I think the problem is that when you test something out you have to test using the same conditions. Unfortunately, I think there's only a handful of other people on this forum that have a fully updated MME other than I.

 

[0t60-3.5]

Eh, think I'm just going to keep using the FOB, still doesn't seem like this is a good idea until there isn't a 6 page thread and consensus that it just works.

Also, key is considered the second factor and more secure still. Just seems this PAAK is a solution looking for a problem when you consider all the downsides.

Agree... Have had my GTPE since August and have simply not enabled PAAK as it seems so problematic. The key fob in the pocket is no big deal and reliable! And now that's it's colder in the Midwest, the key fob is in the coat pocket rather than slacks/jeans.

 

[bellyer]

The PaaK update was supposedly applied to my MME a couple weeks ago during a service appointment, but the performance of PaaK does not seem to have improved at all. That same appointment was supposed to have the technician fix the Qi wireless charging pad because that was not working for me any longer. The technician did replace some of the parts for the wireless charger, but it still does not work, so they scheduled me to come back this week to have the BCM replaced. I mentioned to the service scheduler that I would also like them to update the RFA module, per this thread, to hopefully fix the PaaK reliability issues. The service scheduler at the dealer said that the BCM replacement should address the PaaK. Does anyone know if replacing the BCM will also result in the RFA module being updated/replaced as a part of that effort? I just want to make sure that, while they have the car in on Wednesday, that if the RFA module update discussed here is separate from the work that would be done to replace the BCM, that I ask them to be sure to do the RFA module update, as well.

 

[DevSecOps]

The PaaK update was supposedly applied to my MME a couple weeks ago during a service appointment, but the performance of PaaK does not seem to have improved at all. That same appointment was supposed to have the technician fix the Qi wireless charging pad because that was not working for me any longer. The technician did replace some of the parts for the wireless charger, but it still does not work, so they scheduled me to come back this week to have the BCM replaced. I mentioned to the service scheduler that I would also like them to update the RFA module, per this thread, to hopefully fix the PaaK reliability issues. The service scheduler at the dealer said that the BCM replacement should address the PaaK. Does anyone know if replacing the BCM will also result in the RFA module being updated/replaced as a part of that effort? I just want to make sure that, while they have the car in on Wednesday, that if the RFA module update discussed here is separate from the work that would be done to replace the BCM, that I ask them to be sure to do the RFA module update, as well.

Ok so about the charging pad there's a TSB on the charging pad that says that some phones like the iPhone 12 will not work on the pad. They basically blame Apple for not being QI charging compliant.

As for the BCM, it is in the PaaK chain, read up a couple posts. This doesn't ensure the dealer will update anything. I would ask them to perform all updates available for the vehicle and see if they will. Then reset PaaK after you get the car back and see how it works.

 

[DevSecOps]

@bellyer Send me your VIN via DM and I'll give you a list of modules that need to be updated.

 

[bellyer]

Ok so about the charging pad there's a TSB on the charging pad that says that some phones like the iPhone 12 will not work on the pad. They basically blame Apple for not being QI charging compliant.

As for the BCM, it is in the PaaK chain, read up a couple posts. This doesn't ensure the dealer will update anything. I would ask them to perform all updates available for the vehicle and see if they will. Then reset PaaK after you get the car back and see how it works.

Thanks, I will definitely ask that they apply the RFA update (along with any others that are available that have not yet been installed by them during the previous appointment when I am there this week). As for the wireless charging pad, we do not use Apple products at all. Our various Samsung Galaxy models have all worked flawlessly with Qi charging in the car and on other charging pads. The car just stopped charging our phones within the past 2 months or so. The service technician consulted with Ford and they believe the BCM replacement should fix the charging pad. Guess we'll see...

 

[benk016]

Just updating after my weekend out of town using PAAK after applying this update.

I'm definitely still having issues with it. it seems to detect my phone walking up to the car 100% of the time. I can open the door every time. Its when I get in the car, that about 50% of the time I get a key not detected error a few times before it will start. And its back to giving me key not detected again after I start driving.

I never once had to use the backup code to start the car though.

 

[Skolnick89]

First and foremost: This is still a working theory and a few of us are trying to work out the bugs to see if indeed this is a fix for most users. What we know is that there is a module update for the first module in the chain of modules for PaaK. There are many cars that need updates to modules down the line from the RFA module that are also part of PaaK. I will keep this thread updated with our findings. As for now, I have a perfect PaaK experience with a FULLY updated MME. Prior to the update I had the below listed issues.

I originally posted this for those of us that have GT/GTPE models however @benk016 informed me that he noticed the same update being available on his previous FE, which I've since confirmed. This means that the update should be universal across all builds. I will refer to Ben's post here for more information.

If you face these issues:

• PaaK will take a long time to connect outside of the car when the doors are locked
• PaaK will take a while to be recognized as a key once inside the car
• PaaK will not work unless you open the FP App
• The vehicle will display "Key not found" even after starting the car

I fully updated my MME via FDRS, including an RFA Module update, and after many days using PaaK I can report that the distance that it senses me at is much greater (including walk-a-way, so I had to get used to that) and it has yet to fail or give no key errors. As an additional data point I am using Android.

What I do experience still is a very short delay from deep sleep. If the car has been off for a while I can approach the car without the vehicle knowing I'm there. Touching the door button wakes the car and 1 second later, pressing it again opens the door. This might be expected behavior from a dormant car for battery life.

To perform the update you could do it yourself via the guides and about a 1k investment in hardware or bring it to the dealer. My specific comments and pictures in regards to the update process can be found here.

Fun stats -

VIN Checks Performed - 45
VINs Needing Update - 35
VINs Already Updated - 10

One of the checks was on a GT, not yet delivered and just produced 3 weeks ago. It needed these updates. I would assume all new vehicles need the update even the ones rolling off the line.

Those that had older PaaK updates might need this update as well. There are two RFA module updates for older builds.

For OTA Reference - I've been asked a few times which modules can be updated via OTA. Here's the link.

Other things to try - remember that your phone needs to be excluded from power management features and it should also be given always gps access. By default these settings are not on. Also by default some OS' will only give you "while using the app" permissions. You'll need to manually grant FordPass those access levels. Remember that your phone has to be trying to connect to the car for PaaK to work.

Reset PaaK - If you perform the updates I would recommend resetting your PaaK settings which can be done in the car by going to Settings - General - Reset. Do not reset from the phone. This step, while annoying, eliminates a possible point of failure. Just like tech support for many electronics, reboot and reset are often the first steps. Remove the old Bluetooth connections from the phone before attempting to re-pair. The BT connection will not have a name, rather it just has the MAC address of the car's BT radio.

VIN Checks - I've done a lot of them... each one takes about 10 minutes so I'm not going to do any more. After doing so many, there's a clear denominator. If you have had a RFA or PaaK update after July 1, 2021 then you should have all the PaaK updates. If this is you then you most likely have a lot of other updates needed and you should get those installed. If you have never had an RFA or PaaK update then your car will need it (some will need 2 updates for the RFA). This even applies to the ones rolling off the line as of October.

#1 Question Received - How do you get the dealer to update the car. Short answer, I don't know. It's my experience that dealers only want to update what they have to. Unless there's an issue with a TSB or recall I don't suppose they will. You might get lucky, but some of these updates take 2+ hours to complete. Someone has to pay them to do that and without a TSB/Recall to bill back to corporate it's probably not gonna happen.

 

[DevSecOps]

Just updating after my weekend out of town using PAAK after applying this update.

I'm definitely still having issues with it. it seems to detect my phone walking up to the car 100% of the time. I can open the door every time. Its when I get in the car, that about 50% of the time I get a key not detected error a few times before it will start. And its back to giving me key not detected again after I start driving.

I never once had to use the backup code to start the car though.

I sent you a DM. Just curious if the RFA module is still showing the wrong version with the correct config and if you reset PaaK after doing the update.

 

[Skolnick89]

Sorry but what are you talking about, I am unfamiliar? My GTPE was recently built and hit my dealer about 2 weeks ago. Are there updates you can only get at dealer vs over the air updates?
All the features seem to work on my GT but if changes are made to improve I would like to get.

So far complaints are limited:
Upon starting the vehicle sometimes it takes about a minute for all screens to appear on the big monitor.
Auto drive works great, but can't change lanes. I have not figured out how to re engage autodrive without cycling the button to off than back to on.
I am disappointed in the audio, does not have enought base in the lower frequencies.

 

[CHeil402]

Thanks, I will definitely ask that they apply the RFA update (along with any others that are available that have not yet been installed by them during the previous appointment when I am there this week). As for the wireless charging pad, we do not use Apple products at all. Our various Samsung Galaxy models have all worked flawlessly with Qi charging in the car and on other charging pads. The car just stopped charging our phones within the past 2 months or so. The service technician consulted with Ford and they believe the BCM replacement should fix the charging pad. Guess we'll see...

One thing you might want to try is rotating your phone 180 degrees. I have an S20+ and it used to work pretty reliably, but I've found it to be spotty if in the normal "botttom-down" orientation. However, if I rotate the phone such that the speaker that you put to your ear is closest to me it works every time.

 

[Tyldum]

Dealer spent 2 days last week updating everything, but my problem with PaaK is that it suddenly starts draining the cellphone. Was like this also prior to the updates.
Android (powersaving stuff disabled).

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