PaaK issues possible resolution with update. All trims / models.

[bellyer]

One thing you might want to try is rotating your phone 180 degrees. I have an S20+ and it used to work pretty reliably, but I've found it to be spotty if in the normal "botttom-down" orientation. However, if I rotate the phone such that the speaker that you put to your ear is closest to me it works every time.

I wish it was that simple. The issue really is a problem with the wireless charging system or the BCM. The dealer service technician and I have both tried multiple phones at multiple orientations with and without the rubber mat. After the wireless charging system was replaced, charging would initiate 1 out of every 7-8 tries and it would stop charging after less than a full second on the charger. Ford claims that replacing the BCM will fix this. Guess we will find out later this week.

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[imstriker]

You just need a build of forscan that has module programming. And a wired OBDlink EX.

Edit: And the .vbf files as forscan can't source them yet.

This has been a fun thread to follow. You put the yet at the end of your statement. I haven't followed Forscan, are they looking to add a way to source at some point?

 

[benk016]

This has been a fun thread to follow. You put the yet at the end of your statement. I haven't followed Forscan, are they looking to add a way to source at some point?

Every other car has had the ability to download files directly in forscan. For whatever reason, the files for the MME haven't been showing up in the usual places. There is one module in forscan that will download the firmware, but the others just say file not found, as does the Ford site when you try and download them.

 

[SAM]

My PaaK works about 80% of the time for my May build with no updates. Do have some of the slow response and key not detected issues. Modules on my car have likely never been updated.

DevSecOps - Sent a DM with VIN. Thanks!

 

[DevSecOps]

I know there's quite a few people that are following this thread so I wanted to update with some information. I have also created a poll that I would like for people to respond to if they can.

I'm very very interested in this phenomenon regarding PaaK. It's obviously been an issue since the car was released. I want to get to the bottom of it and I have one of my developers looking at data with me. Through my DMs with others I've been able to get HCI Snoop Logs (sniffing) of Bluetooth devices while communicating with the car. I'm seeing some interesting data that coincides with the "key not found" error. There's also some data that is requested by the car, which the phone says it doesn't have, that's in the case of unlock events.

Throughout my testing there is one thing that I think we have concluded. If you turn off and on Bluetooth while away from the car, you will have issues unlocking it on return to the car. We can see that the FP app has issues when you turn off BT. That's a different issue, but something to be aware of.

If anyone here is on the more technically inclined side and you wish to provide me more HCI Snoop Logs please DM me those logs. If you don't know what I'm talking about just pretend like you never read that request, I don't want to try to guide people through it at this time.

Just in case anyone is curious, I'll repeat what's been said throughout this thread. My MME GTPE is fully updated (via manual updating the car) and I am using a Pixel 6 Pro, Android 12. I have 0, zilch, no issues with PaaK. It works flawlessly for me.

 

[gtin]

I finally decided to take my car to the dealership to get the Paak update a couple of weeks ago. After all this time, I would think it would just work.
Before I took I made sure the battery wast at 90%. I also asked for the 1.7.1 software update since I had a screen freeze once.
The car stayed in the dealership for 8 hrs. I got the dreadful message in the fordpass app of battery malfunction. I called the dealer they told me this is expected, they just need to disconnect and reconnect the battery. They also told me that the 1.7.1 update failed. It was some issues with ford servers.
I went to pickup my car everything seemed fine Paak working a lot better and no 1.7.1 installed.
After a week driving, car would not start charging with chargepoint homeflex level 2 charger at home. I came to the forums and found a thread related to lvl 2 charger issues. I restarted the app, deleted location, logged off, logged back in, deleted app, installed app,removed the car, added the car back in, started charging with lvl 1 ford charger, switched back to lvl 2 chargepoint then it worked and it charged to 90%.
After driving the car for a while I thought let me try to charge again at lvl 2 and it did not work. I decided to turn off the breaker, disconnect chargepoint from nema 14-50, connect ford lvl 2 charger, turn on breaker and try to use the ford charger. It did not start a charge.
Now, I am using ford charger lvl 1 at home and waiting for an appointment on Nov 12th. It is amazing that after all this time since the car was launched and they still messes up and make things worse.

 

[DevSecOps]

I finally decided to take my car to the dealership to get the Paak update a couple of weeks ago. After all this time, I would think it would just work.
Before I took I made sure the battery wast at 90%. I also asked for the 1.7.1 software update since I had a screen freeze once.
The car stayed in the dealership for 8 hrs. I got the dreadful message in the fordpass app of battery malfunction. I called the dealer they told me this is expected, they just need to disconnect and reconnect the battery. They also told me that the 1.7.1 update failed. It was some issues with ford servers.
I went to pickup my car everything seemed fine Paak working a lot better and no 1.7.1 installed.
After a week driving, car would not start charging with chargepoint homeflex level 2 charger at home. I came to the forums and found a thread related to lvl 2 charger issues. I restarted the app, deleted location, logged off, logged back in, deleted app, installed app,removed the car, added the car back in, started charging with lvl 1 ford charger, switched back to lvl 2 chargepoint then it worked and it charged to 90%.
After driving the car for a while I thought let me try to charge again at lvl 2 and it did not work. I decided to turn off the breaker, disconnect chargepoint from nema 14-50, connect ford lvl 2 charger, turn on breaker and try to use the ford charger. It did not start a charge.
Now, I am using ford charger lvl 1 at home and waiting for an appointment on Nov 12th. It is amazing that after all this time since the car was launched and they still messes up and make things worse.

I think your issues are well beyond PaaK at this point. We all wish you luck?

 

[GoIrish]

So, firstly, devsecops, thanks for the forscan run. I went to the dealer to get my softwares updated and sent him the image you sent me. They checked all modules and said "all modules working fine, therefore Ford won't let us do any updates", wtf?! I told him PAAK still sucks, he said ok, let me try to get you a new key instead but can't update the software.

 

[DevSecOps]

So, firstly, devsecops, thanks for the forscan run. I went to the dealer to get my softwares updated and sent him the image you sent me. They checked all modules and said "all modules working fine, therefore Ford won't let us do any updates", wtf?! I told him PAAK still sucks, he said ok, let me try to get you a new key instead but can't update the software.

I've said this many times before, but I'll say it again. Dealerships are in the business to employee people, pay their employees and make money. Unless the dealer has someone to bill for the time they spend performing these updates, they just aren't going to do it. Furthermore, unless there's a TSB and you have an issue, or a Recall, they can't bill Ford Motor Co. So then it comes down to 3 last options. Either 1 - you pay for the labor for them to update. 2 - You get a nice dealership and you get very lucky. 3 - You either update yourself or find someone who will do it.

 

[memcm_expert]

I've said this many times before, but I'll say it again. Dealerships are in the business to employee people, pay their employees and make money. Unless the dealer has someone to bill for the time they spend performing these updates, they just aren't going to do it. Furthermore, unless there's a TSB and you have an issue, or a Recall, they can't bill Ford Motor Co. So then it comes down to 3 last options. Either 1 - you pay for the labor for them to update. 2 - You get a nice dealership and you get very lucky. 3 - You either update yourself or find someone who will do it.

Folks, I had a Ford C-Max when it first came out. Navigation on it never worked right. It would always show you off the road. They updated it many time to no avail. My local dealership had Ford send an engineer out from Dearborn to work on the vehicle. He didn't have any luck either but they did go the extra mile to try and resolve the issue. Ford ended up buying the car back from me.

My point here is open up a case with Ford Customer Relations. Tell them how unhappy you are and that you want the issue resolved. And if they fail to do so, you will seek other remedies such as Lemon Law (you have to go in with the same problem 3 times in most states) or as was my case, have Ford buy the vehicle back. You could very well get a Ford Engineer/Tech sent to your local dealership to try to resolve the issue(s).

Yes, we early adopters were on the bleeding edge. Yes, most if not all of us expected there to be bugs. But we also expected those bugs to be resolved in a timely manner. And Ford dealerships should be making sure that they do everything they can, including all software updates, to make sure that happens. Anything short of that is a breach of trust between the customer and Ford.

I have had a saying for as long as I can remember that has served me very well.

Customer service is not the most important thing. It's the only thing.

 

[GoIrish]

I've said this many times before, but I'll say it again. Dealerships are in the business to employee people, pay their employees and make money. Unless the dealer has someone to bill for the time they spend performing these updates, they just aren't going to do it. Furthermore, unless there's a TSB and you have an issue, or a Recall, they can't bill Ford Motor Co. So then it comes down to 3 last options. Either 1 - you pay for the labor for them to update. 2 - You get a nice dealership and you get very lucky. 3 - You either update yourself or find someone who will do it.

While that my be true, I am equal parts aggravated and equal parts disappointed. When you pay $60k+ for a car, you expect a certain experience, but this is far from it. It is very aggravating to know that there is a fix available for most of my issues, I show up with the car to the dealership, they have the fix, but won't apply it. Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh....

 

[tuminatr]

While that my be true, I am equal parts aggravated and equal parts disappointed. When you pay $60k+ for a car, you expect a certain experience, but this is far from it. It is very aggravating to know that there is a fix available for most of my issues, I show up with the car to the dealership, they have the fix, but won't apply it. Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh....

Sad part this seems like an easy fix. Ford should pony up and pay their dealers to do the software updates until they get the OTA working as it should.

 

[MotownMachdoc]

First and foremost: This is still a working theory and a few of us are trying to work out the bugs to see if indeed this is a fix for most users. What we know is that there is a module update for the first module in the chain of modules for PaaK. There are many cars that need updates to modules down the line from the RFA module that are also part of PaaK. I will keep this thread updated with our findings. As for now, I have a perfect PaaK experience with a FULLY updated MME. Prior to the update I had the below listed issues.

I originally posted this for those of us that have GT/GTPE models however @benk016 informed me that he noticed the same update being available on his previous FE, which I've since confirmed. This means that the update should be universal across all builds. I will refer to Ben's post here for more information.

If you face these issues:

• PaaK will take a long time to connect outside of the car when the doors are locked
• PaaK will take a while to be recognized as a key once inside the car
• PaaK will not work unless you open the FP App
• The vehicle will display "Key not found" even after starting the car

I fully updated my MME via FDRS, including an RFA Module update, and after many days using PaaK I can report that the distance that it senses me at is much greater (including walk-a-way, so I had to get used to that) and it has yet to fail or give no key errors. As an additional data point I am using Android.

What I do experience still is a very short delay from deep sleep. If the car has been off for a while I can approach the car without the vehicle knowing I'm there. Touching the door button wakes the car and 1 second later, pressing it again opens the door. This might be expected behavior from a dormant car for battery life.

To perform the update you could do it yourself via the guides and about a 1k investment in hardware or bring it to the dealer. My specific comments and pictures in regards to the update process can be found here.

Fun stats -

VIN Checks Performed - 45
VINs Needing Update - 35
VINs Already Updated - 10

One of the checks was on a GT, not yet delivered and just produced 3 weeks ago. It needed these updates. I would assume all new vehicles need the update even the ones rolling off the line.

Those that had older PaaK updates might need this update as well. There are two RFA module updates for older builds.

For OTA Reference - I've been asked a few times which modules can be updated via OTA. Here's the link.

Other things to try - remember that your phone needs to be excluded from power management features and it should also be given always gps access. By default these settings are not on. Also by default some OS' will only give you "while using the app" permissions. You'll need to manually grant FordPass those access levels. Remember that your phone has to be trying to connect to the car for PaaK to work. DISABLE battery management for the FP App.

Reset PaaK - If you perform the updates I would recommend resetting your PaaK settings which can be done in the car by going to Settings - General - Reset. Do not reset from the phone. This step, while annoying, eliminates a possible point of failure. Just like tech support for many electronics, reboot and reset are often the first steps. Remove the old Bluetooth connections from the phone before attempting to re-pair. The BT connection will not have a name, rather it just has the MAC address of the car's BT radio.

VIN Checks - I've done a lot of them... each one takes about 10 minutes so I'm not going to do any more. After doing so many, there's a clear denominator. If you have had a RFA or PaaK update after July 1, 2021 then you should have all the PaaK updates. If this is you then you most likely have a lot of other updates needed and you should get those installed. If you have never had an RFA or PaaK update then your car will need it (some will need 2 updates for the RFA). This even applies to the ones rolling off the line as of October.

#1 Question Received - How do you get the dealer to update the car. Short answer, I don't know. It's my experience that dealers only want to update what they have to. Unless there's an issue with a TSB or recall I don't suppose they will. You might get lucky, but some of these updates take 2+ hours to complete. Someone has to pay them to do that and without a TSB/Recall to bill back to corporate it's probably not gonna happen.

I had the PAAK issue with the driver door would not unlock until the passenger door was unlocked. There is a TSB for that. Sometimes PAAK would not be recognized as a key. I took it to the dealer to have the updates done under the TSB. Dropped it off at a 7:30 appointment. All updates done by noon. No charge. Paak issues are resolved.

 

[DonE]

i have Ford Powerup 1.16.0. I do not know if this is the latest SW updated in Germany. I still have the no key found and chirps.

 

[DevSecOps]

@DonE No updates have been pushed out OTA to resolve this as far as we know. They have to be performed manually.

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