Possibly Facing Eviction; Advice Needed

[Fixbear]

State laws differ. But being a new building, in some states they are requiring EVSE's. Explore that before your face to face.

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[SightUp]

So, I hear that. But show me where it says you cannot use the socket for anything? Oh, that's right, it does say.

USE RESTRICTIONS. Garage or carport may be used only for
storage of operable motor vehicles unless otherwise stated
in our rules or community policies. Storage units may be used
only for storage of personal property. Garages, carports and
storage units are not a dwelling unit. No one may sleep, cook,
barbeque, or live in a garage, carport, or storage unit. Persons
not listed as a resident or occupant in the Lease Contract may
not use the areas covered by this addendum. No plants may
be grown in such areas.

 

[joes723]

I can see where the confusion is…since there’s no documentation of the fact that you “cannot” do something and nothing documented what is “acceptable” within the parameters of their property, there is an obvious gray area.
But, something to remember and keep in mind; you live in your residence with their permission (of sorts), with the understanding you pay rent in order to live there. Any rental situation around is going to have a “usage based” utility of some kind (water, trash, power, etc..). The property “owners”(company) probably had to pay an electric bill that was out of line what they budgeted for and previous bills so they had to find the “user” to pass along the fees.
A refrigerator in the garage is only going to use fractions of penny’s worth of energy compared to a car. A refrigerator comes on for barely 5 minutes, does it’s job and then turns back off. Leading to about $10-$15 a month based normal use and on your energy costs. A second fridge in the garage that is hardly ever used could be as low as $2-$5 a month. On 110/120v your car is going to draw energy for the entirety of the charging process (hours, hours and hours of energy use). Which, even if you charged conservatively, you could surpass that monthly cost to charge the car within a handfull of charging sessions versus running a fridge.
It really does suck and I don’t admire your situation and can empathize. The best thing to do is ask, “what can I do to make everyone happy? (Win/win)”. I’m sure there is a comprise in which doesn’t put you out on a financial ledge and they can appease their bosses.

 

[Jimbo]

IANAL, and I don't know the tenants' rights laws were you live, but seems to me if there's an outlet in a garage that you lease, for your personal use, you can use it. If they eventually remove it or shut off the breaker, then you find out if that's a code/contract violation and go from there.

If the owners don't want you using an outlet, up to the installed amperage, on premises that you rent, that's their fault for not putting it into your contract/not installing a subpanel and meter on their dime. Hopefully they'll learn next time. And no, "you can't sleep in the garage" does not equal "you can't use an outlet"

 

[EELinneman]

I don't feel you guys read my post in the entirety. I moved into this place because I was told that the garage was mine and I could use the 120v charge. That has changed several months into the lease here. I am the bad guy now?

Actually, you are. Unless you have something in writing regarding the use of the charger, you don't have a legal claim. Second, you were offered a compromise that was entirely fair and doable and you went with the legal option before you even negotiated with them. If this is even accepted in court, you are going to get your ass kicked and likely have to pay for their legal fees to boot.

Calculate your usage of the 120v outlet and offer this to them along with a rational basis for your estimate. I own a rental in a large complex, and the management company there is being very reasonable. You are not.

And, no, I'm not a lawyer, but have a lot of experience dealing with lawyers. The one you hired is not serving you well.

People are reading your posts, evaluating your arguments, and just don't agree with you. Take a step back and figure out what your easiest, least costly option is here. They may just pull all their offers back and leave you in a bad spot.

Lastly, the dishwasher is not connected to the other issue. Work that with the management company or unit owner in a calm, rational way. Compartmentalize this issue from the 120v usage and you will make more progress. You might also want to look into any incentives from the power company, state or federal programs that could help the owners get partial or complete funding for a Level 2 charger or tax credits for their costs. That would be a great step forward and likely get you both an answer that you can live with.

Best of luck with this. Let us know what direction you take. It will likely help others who face this same problem in the future.

 

[generaltso]

So, I hear that. But show me where it says you cannot use the socket for anything? Oh, that's right, it does say.

It says that the carport can ONLY be used for storage unless otherwise stated in the rules and policies. They don’t then have to list every possible activity that’s not allowed. Who does the lease say is responsible for the utilities? The tenant or the landlord?

 

[Thesmoothdome]

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. I'm sure this is going to continue to be an issue as the transition to EVs continue. You can try to stick to your guns and run your lease out. Even if you stay to the end of your lease, the new lease will likely include an increase to offset their costs to allow you to charge for free. They're providing options now to mitigate that.

 

[Scooby24]

IANAL, and I don't know the tenants' rights laws were you live, but seems to me if there's an outlet in a garage that you lease, for your personal use, you can use it. If they eventually remove it or shut off the breaker, then you find out if that's a code/contract violation and go from there.

If the owners don't want you using an outlet, up to the installed amperage, on premises that you rent, that's their fault for not putting it into your contract/not installing a subpanel and meter on their dime. Hopefully they'll learn next time. And no, "you can't sleep in the garage" does not equal "you can't use an outlet"

They state exactly what it can be used for.

Garage or carport may be used only for
storage of operable motor vehicles unless otherwise stated
in our rules or community policies.

They state it's not a dwelling unit...so it cannot be used for the things you'd typically associate with a dwelling unit. They gave some examples. One of those includes not being able to grow plants. It's not immediately obvious but in a garage what would you need to use to grow a plant? Light...electricity.

So...put 2 and 2 together.

 

[EELinneman]

It says that the carport can ONLY be used for storage unless otherwise stated in the rules and policies. They don’t then have to list every possible activity that’s not allowed. Who does the lease say is responsible for the utilities? The tenant or the landlord?

In shared buildings like this, there is common infrastructure that is usually paid via dues. These can be fixed items like security lights or based on size/number of bedrooms, etc. Most larger complexes charge a fee that the owner pays and not the tenant. Of course, those get buried in the rent, but owners are more likely to pay the bills than tenants are.''

In the unit we own here in Colorado, the tenant pays his own electricity and gas which are metered by unit. The common utilities that provide building lights, garage door power and heating of common areas including hallways are billed to the owners on the size of the unit in bedrooms/bathrooms. There are outlets in the parking which is below the housing, but these are convenience devices for all tenants to use. Water is provided by the owners and billed equally per unit as it also covers landscaping use.

I looked up our covenants and agreements and it does not mention use other than to say it is available for temporary use by tenants. There are outlets in the common hallways, but I've only seen building maintenance using those. Don't get me started on the pool, which has been out of service all year since the management company didn't have the pumps serviced and drained before last winter.....

 

[jbooth]

Were you located where I am, I would guess you would have a leg to stand on but I am not a lawyer. We have a couple rentals and have actively avoided any "landlord pays power*" purchases, because I don't want to be paying for some bitcoin farm's power. Could I put something in the lease that says tenants can't do that? Yes. Would I have to? Yes. And then if I wanted to evict, I'd have to prove they did that thing the lease says they can't.

*: Aka "this was a single family home someone carved up into multiple apartments but didn't separate the electrical/water/gas."

 

[mkhuffman]

Someone pays for the electricity someone else steals. I think we should all pay for what we use.

 

[DadzBoyz]

Always get everything in writing, PERIOD.

Another poster said:
“..as for your lease agreement, if it’s not included in writing then it’s excluded…”

1. Contract law is different from state to state. Where I live, if you sign a contract that was written by the other party, and you were not given the right or ability to make changes before signing, well, items not expressly written or defined, or disputes go in favor of the party that did not write the contract (of course, as long those things are legal).

2. “if it’s not included in writing then it’s excluded…”
- So, if parties are not allowed, in writing, in the lease contract, tenants are not allowed to have parties? Wrong
- If a family member falls ill and requires 24 hour care, unless that situation is expressly written in the lease, it’s not allowed? Wrong

Last point:
If there are plugs in the walls, and they are live/powered, and are not covered or locked, and the lease does not prohibit they’re use, I believe that is a tacit permission to use.
If you ask them if you could use a plug in power drill, charge your phone, plug in a portable air compressor to blow up a toy for the pool, plug in a light, etc. in the garage that you are paying to use, and they say those things are fine, you have stated permission (in writing is always best). If other tenants are clearly, visibly, using the outlets (and there is photo documentation or affidavit admitting to such) and they are not being penalized or asked to pay extra to run a blender in the garage, but they do penalize/restrict your use, now you have selective enforcement, which may or may not be legal in your state.
Unless they place a limit to specific devices, power draw, duration of use, etc. there isn’t a restriction.

Having said that, I am not a lawyer. I was a legal assistant and shared business office space with my father-in-law for years and worked on cases with him. It was a really quite interesting experience and provided a training on perspective, consideration, and arguments that would be hard to get elsewhere.
Moving on, the apartment complex has lawyerS on retainer and would use them to fight you. Don’t go into a gun fight with a toothpick. Ask your lawyer to write a letter to the apartment complex and ask them to request a documented exception to, what will likely be their new leasing rules that you force them to create. The attorney may charge you a flat $500, or something along those lines, but you’d significantly increase your chances of winning from about 0.01% to somewhere above 60-70%.
Lawyers talk to, work with, negotiate with, settle with lawyers. Not simplefolk like us. ?

 

[tannerk89]

I would agree with the lawyer on this one, as far as his legal assessment goes. The apartment complex is right to charge separately for EV charging I suppose, but they don’t have the equipment or contract in place to enforce that. They can’t force you to upgrade their building or pay anything not stated as your responsibility in the lease. Depends how far you want to go to save the $15-30/mo you’re likely using. Lawyers, judges, ands courts all suck… just to save ~300/year ??‍

 

[randomvoice]

I don't feel you guys read my post in the entirety. I moved into this place because I was told that the garage was mine and I could use the 120v charge. That has changed several months into the lease here. I am the bad guy now?

I think I understand the stance but it will hold no weight without having it in writing. From your email posted, they're giving you viable options. Now it is a separate discussion whether they'll pursue a full legal route for this.

Going the legal route is gonna be expensive for both. I doubt they'd evict you over a few 10s of dollars extra per month (I hope they understand this and aren't wildly assuming you're costing them 100s of extra dollars) and I also doubt you want to hire a lawyer and pay them 175$/hour for this shit as well. Better to just work with them on this and not write emails as if you're trying to pick up a fight.

I would just get your average miles driven per month, assume a generous '4 mile/kwh' efficiency, draw out the KWH consumed, multiply that by the per KWH cost and then go to the management with a low ball number (maybe cut 20% from it). Tell them you'll just pay that over your rent and be done. Chances are, the number will be low as it is since I assume you're not driving the car a lot as you're just trickle charging. Get the interaction in writing (be professional) so in case you have to show up in court, you can use it as a defence that you also provided them with an option and you're not one of those spoilt brats that show up on judge judy.

 

[npgeorgeuw]

I feel for you, but I do think you're stuck. Unless you have any of the pre agreements in writing you aren't going to win this. At least not without a fight that will cost you more than the increase in rates. I'd try to negotiate the adjustment with them for the remainder of the lease.

Lessons learned here. 1. Get things in writing. 2. When they're coming to inspect/enter your area, remove anything that would be out of place. Especially if it was an EV charge that just plugged into the wall.


I guess if you really want to be sneaky, just tell them you're charging elsewhere and then trickle charge only while you're home and occasionally. Just be prepared for issues if they catch you.

Also, if you're single, try dating a lawyer and see if they'll help out. I married one so these disputes are fun when the billable hours are free.

Or you could just own your sh*t because you didn’t get it in writing… I think you’re sorta joking about things (especially sicking your wife on someone) but as a business owner that works in the medical field having someone say lawyer doesn’t mean they are going to get their way. It means we stop communicating and immediately refer it to our liability insurer.—don’t collect $200 and don’t pass go.

point is I think being disingenuous about electric usage (which is what you are advising) is still a crappy move. Definitely not ethical. Pay for your usage it’s only a few bucks, case closed.

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