Re: Ford lost $5 billion on EVs in 2024, teases new models

[ryannix123]

"The company predicts similar losses in 2025 due to costly new vehicle launches and falling car prices. Ford aims to introduce a range of powertrains, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid, and extended-range EVs, to compete with rivals.

https://www.theverge.com/news/607045/ford-q4-2024-earnings-ev-loss

Farley said the automaker would introduce a range of powertrains, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid, and extended range EVs, that use small gas engines to recharge the battery for up to “700 miles of range.” These include “flexible body-on-frame and unit-body platforms that will be designed for these multi-energy powertrains,” he said."

I do think the EREVs are better for most people. I still have my 2016 Chevy Volt Premier, which has a 40-mile battery range and kicks over to gas when needed.

Farley appears to agree:

"Because there's no transmission, there's no gears, no drive line, there's no axles, duplicate axles, there's no duplicate power train. The incremental investment of fitting that combustion engine in there is very minimal to the customer," said Farley."

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[Doobster6]

"The company predicts similar losses in 2025 due to costly new vehicle launches and falling car prices. Ford aims to introduce a range of powertrains, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid, and extended-range EVs, to compete with rivals.

https://www.theverge.com/news/607045/ford-q4-2024-earnings-ev-loss

Farley said the automaker would introduce a range of powertrains, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid, and extended range EVs, that use small gas engines to recharge the battery for up to “700 miles of range.” These include “flexible body-on-frame and unit-body platforms that will be designed for these multi-energy powertrains,” he said."

I do think the EREVs are better for most people. I still have my 2016 Chevy Volt Premier, which has a 40-mile battery range and kicks over to gas when needed.

Farley appears to agree:

"Because there's no transmission, there's no gears, no drive line, there's no axles, duplicate axles, there's no duplicate power train. The incremental investment of fitting that combustion engine in there is very minimal to the customer," said Farley."

Jim is no dummy, and this way of allowing electric propulsion cars to achieve 600+ mile ranges might be the best compromise yet! It’s likely too that with a full tank of gas (depending on the tank size) you could park the car and it could recharge its battery from that engine alone. This might be a neat ‘emergency’ option if you’re not near a public DC charger.

 

[Doobster6]

Regarding that $5B loss…….that almost certainly includes amortization for the billions of dollars spent on engineering, prototype testing, and factory tooling and start-up. It is highly likely that after the first thousand cars were produced, every car produced thereafter is individually making a positive cash contribution to the bottom line. In accounting-speak this is called ‘contribution margin’ (CM) and is the sell price minus all manufacturing costs including manufacturing overhead.
Let’s say (hope?) that each car’s CM is $5k. In a year where Ford sells 55,000 Mach-E’s then $270M flows towards the bottom line. But if there’s also $5B of prior investment costs also being written off that year, then Ford’s accountant will say Ford ‘lost’ $92,593 (usually rounded up to $100k) per car. But all of those write-downs are for fixed costs already expended and being accounted for in each following year according to tax codes, as intended. But it sounds horrible doesn’t it?…..like Ford should just shut the whole thing down.
And if the CM was $0 or negative, and the market had just rejected the offerings outright, they just might. But if instead the CM is $5k, then each additional car they sell is literally making money for Ford. And as battery costs continue to drop due to higher volume manufacturing, that CM will improve and the positive cash will accumulate (unless they have to drop their sell price due to market competition). Since Ford is continuing to improve the car, and sales are increasing year over year, it would appear that this scenario is likely. EVs are here to stay, and Ford so far has only two EVs, each of which is somewhat ‘market-mature’ and unlikely to be canceled. But it also doesn’t surprise me that Ford is considering adding other electrified options to their portfolio.

 

[ChehRob]

It would be interesting to have a table of what, for various users, would be the optimal battery size. I suspect that for many of us 75 electric miles would be close. If that gas motor could be used to charge and also provide heat for the battery pack and cabin in cold weather winter worries would fade. Heat from FFs when it can be used is pretty efficient.

 

[devmach-e]

It would be interesting to have a table of what, for various users, would be the optimal battery size. I suspect that for many of us 75 electric miles would be close. If that gas motor could be used to charge and also provide heat for the battery pack and cabin in cold weather winter worries would fade. Heat from FFs when it can be used is pretty efficient.

Needs to be at least 125 miles so I can get to and from work without having to charge, and having a buffer for emergencies. I can't necessarily rely on charging at work these days. Better make it at least 150, now that I think about it.

 

[rhieb]

It would be interesting to have a table of what, for various users, would be the optimal battery size. I suspect that for many of us 75 electric miles would be close. If that gas motor could be used to charge and also provide heat for the battery pack and cabin in cold weather winter worries would fade. Heat from FFs when it can be used is pretty efficient.

What you’re describing is the Chevy Volt. I own a 2017, and when new it got 60ish electric miles on good weather days. Now it’s mid 40s. The Volt is electric driven- and the ICE only runs when the battery is drained and it serves as a generator, heater just as you describe. Mine has over 100k miles on it now, 78k of them are electric.

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