Really Great Farley interview on EVs

[Otto klub]

Everyone calls them gas guzzles when gas prices double and manufacturers are putting out things like an H1 Hummer.

The Hummer may drink a lot of gas, I really don't know. That don't make all other ice gas guzzlers. The price of gas has nothing to do with how much it uses. Just operating cost.
Just because a manufacturer puts the Hummer out there, much like EVs, don't mean everybody is going to run out and buy one.

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[MrLoganRoss]

Oh, it is realistic.
Had, if, when BEVs sold/sell in better numbers free enterprise would/will start putting up chargers everywhere. They want the money it would make. No incentives needed. Sales numbers are not yet big enough to risk investment.

That’s like saying free enterprise would have resulted in roads and bridges.

it has all been built when a country comes together, says this is the next step, and invests as a country.

Norway seems like a great example. Heavy government investment in charging infrastructure and 80% of new cars are now electric.

 

[jbooth]

But all cars kill people, so by your logic all cars should be banned.

Not what I said but I didn't really expect you to understand.

So, then based on the scientific data all cars and trucks should be shaped like a 1987 Lamborghini Countach.

That'd be okay, those were rad cars.

Maybe the Government just should mandate one single height-matching automotive design? Should we just call it the People's Car?

Also, not what I said but feel free to continue to strawman. You must get paid by the word or by the post? Hope it works out well for you. Tell your masters I said "Hi."

 

[Otto klub]

Funny, I've never see anyone bitch about Ferraris that get 15 MPG.

Nor have I.

 

[dbsb3233]

That’s like saying free enterprise would have resulted in roads and bridges.

it has all been built when a country comes together, says this is the next step, and invests as a country.

Norway seems like a great example. Heavy government investment in charging infrastructure and 80% of new cars are now electric.

Roads and bridges aren't usually practicable for private enterprise to build. There are some privately built toll roads, but that just wouldn't work for the other 99.9% of roads. It's one of the few truly necessary and important roles of government.

DCFC is not though. Tesla proves that by having built the best DCFC network in existence, that everyone is crawling all over themselves to get access to.

 

[ChehRob]

We gave away a huge share of the West to RRs to build the tracks. It likely would have been cheaper to have had the government build them. And at that most of them went bankrupt several times. Also a lot of that building was slipshod. The last line, the Great Northern was built privately and also the best of the northern lines.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Well, we see how private build-out of EV charging infrastructure is going so far……………….,,

 

[dbsb3233]

The railroads were built by private companies and are still owned by private companies. Railroads have bridges.

In the mid to late 1800's many roads were built by private entities to serve their business interests. Freight, mining, logging, and trade, just to name a few.

Most of the things people think the Government legislated into existence were actually ideas developed by private ingenuity driven by market capitalism. The Govenment adopted what was developed privately.

Yes, railroads are private large-scale transportation services (airlines too). That are big enough to build their own tracks, including the bridges. (In theory anyway, ignoring government bailouts and subsidies which have sadly become so frequent of late.)

But cars are not. They're owned by millions of individuals. Individuals don't have the economy of scale to build their own roads and bridges like the railroads did. That's just not possible. Millions of individuals need a giant entity to build/maintain a road network for them, that they each pay a slice of (via taxes and/or tolls). That almost always means government. In some cases it's a toll road entity, but those are usually just a form of government too.

 

[dbsb3233]

Well, we see how private build-out of EV charging infrastructure is going so far……………….,,

For Tesla, quite well. For the others, no so much.

 

[dbsb3233]

We gave away a huge share of the West to RRs to build the tracks. It likely would have been cheaper to have had the government build them. And at that most of them went bankrupt several times. Also a lot of that building was slipshod. The last line, the Great Northern was built privately and also the best of the northern lines.

The only thing keeping the government from going bankrupt is the ability to print money and go $35 Trillion in debt (and soaring). They play by a different set of rules. If they played by private sector rules they'd have gone bankrupt 100 times over now.

 

[Fremont Kid]

I own a Ford Fusion hybrid and a MME ER Premium. MME can be charged from @ 45% to 80% overnight which is more than sufficient for the miles we drive - supporting Farley's point. We charge every 2-3 days. Just installed photovoltaic panels on garage which produces more than enough to charge the MME battery, power house and get credit to pump electrons into the grid. Probably will never pay another utility bill.
I worked on cars all my life so I do enjoy not needing to change oil, filters, plugs, etc. That also saves money.

Can drive the hybrid when driving longer distance through places w/o sufficient chargers, e.g. WV, UT, NV. Insurance rates are higher because of more tech, and pay a state EV fee that supports transportation infrastructure.

Once the number of charging stations double, I think any resistance to EVs and plug-in hybrids will evaporate.

 

[Fremont Kid]

The only thing keeping the government from going bankrupt is the ability to print money and go $35 Trillion in debt (and soaring). They play by a different set of rules. If they played by private sector rules they'd have gone bankrupt 100 times over now.

Ohhh, so many more people would be bankrupt, living on streets or hills, dead from diseases - all because of factors not created by government but created by capitalism or because conservatives don't want to invest in preventive medicine, which saves money. Interesting that conservatives don't want big government until they WANT big government to intervene to help get through issues the government did not create.
Most recent example is that inflation of the last 2 years was created by the private sector, not because of government spending. But now people expect the Fed to reduce inflation - and fast. I do not see the private sector capitalist companies proposing solutions, although a few like Walmart and Costo have reduced some prices.

Last statement on this non-EV topic: I fully accept that the private sector will resolve any fluctuations by itself and over time. But, that is not the primary topic or issue. The primary issue is how many people will be impacted negatively during the resolution time frame. Only the government has the responsibility to help people during such circumstances. And, I've never seen the private sector capitalists offer solutions to help during the adjustment time frame.

 

[Snakebitten]

I don't believe public charging infrastructure is nearly the obstacle to widespread EV adoption in the USA that many might believe. Emphasis on widespread. I specifically mean the folks that DON'T have an EV and will currently tell you they don't intend to switch soon either.

Instead, I believe the same thing that permeates/sullies this forum, and threads like this, are the biggest obstacle.

Politics.

I LOVE EV's. I impulse entered into EV dabbling and it led to my current ownership of the Mach-E. They are so enjoyable for the car-guy side of things. But the politics, both for and against EV's, are the one thing that diminishes the enjoyment for me. I dream of the day I can share conversations about the Mach-E with friends, family, and strangers, and it be a similar conversation to the ones I have about my other vehicles.

Nobody talks politics when they ask about the Miata. Or the Boxster. Or the Yamaha Super Tenere, or the........

Only the Mach-E!

 

[dbsb3233]

Ohhh, so many more people would be bankrupt, living on streets or hills, dead from diseases - all because of factors not created by government but created by capitalism or because conservatives don't want to invest in preventive medicine, which saves money. Interesting that conservatives don't want big government until they WANT big government to intervene to help get through issues the government did not create.
Most recent example is that inflation of the last 2 years was created by the private sector, not because of government spending. But now people expect the Fed to reduce inflation - and fast. I do not see the private sector capitalist companies proposing solutions, although a few like Walmart and Costo have reduced some prices.

Last statement on this non-EV topic: I fully accept that the private sector will resolve any fluctuations by itself and over time. But, that is not the primary topic or issue. The primary issue is how many people will be impacted negatively during the resolution time frame. Only the government has the responsibility to help people during such circumstances. And, I've never seen the private sector capitalists offer solutions to help during the adjustment time frame.

Plenty to address/dispute in there, but this isn't the place. My comment was simply in reply to the one saying railroads went bankrupt many times and suggesting government wouldn't have. Which is false if they had the same rules. Apples and oranges. That's not to say that government doesn't need (some) extraordinary power over our lives, to tax us and spend (some) where it's impractical to do it any other way (like a road network, for instance).

I think you mistook my comments in response to the "railroads vs government" post.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't believe public charging infrastructure is nearly the obstacle to widespread EV adoption in the USA that many might believe. Emphasis on widespread. I specifically mean the folks that DON'T have an EV and will currently tell you they don't intend to switch soon either.

Instead, I believe the same thing that permeates/sullies this forum, and threads like this, are the biggest obstacle.

Politics.

I LOVE EV's. I impulse entered into EV dabbling and it led to my current ownership of the Mach-E. They are so enjoyable for the car-guy side of things. But the politics, both for and against EV's, are the one thing that diminishes the enjoyment for me. I dream of the day I can share conversations about the Mach-E with friends, family, and strangers, and it be a similar conversation to the ones I have about my other vehicles.

Nobody talks politics when they ask about the Miata. Or the Boxster. Or the Yamaha Super Tenere, or the........

Only the Mach-E!

I entirely agree with your first paragraph. But I don't think politics is the #1 obstacle either.

The subpar DCFC network and EV politics are significant obstacles, to be sure. But I'd put "poor fit" and purchase price above both.

There's a tendency by people for whom an EV is a good fit to forget all the situations where it's not. Something like 40% of the US populace lives in apartments or condos. Another slice rent a house rather than own. For the vast majority of all those, an EV is a poor fit because cheap, convenient, dedicated L2 is almost a prerequisite to realize the most advantageous aspect of an EV. (There are exceptions to everything, but that's generally the case.)

Others want/need a big vehicle that doesn't exist in EV form yet (or if it does, is just way too expensive). Or need to do frequent distance towing, or frequent wilderness areas to recreate far from infrastructure, etc. There's lots of situations where they're still either impractical or too compromising. Even though there are many other situations where they're ideal.

And of course the cost situation is well documented. A CR-V or RAV4 can be had for many thousands less than a Mach-E or ID.4. Even after tax credits (if they even qualify at all). $47,000 vs $32,000 is a BIG difference. Especially when loan interest rates are high.

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