Senate Bill Deal to Expand EV Tax Credits (7/27/2022)

[Mach1E]

Under the new Bill there will be more IRS agents.

That should take care of the tax fraud that you are worried about.

I was a teacher for a number of years and then I decided to start a new business. The business took off and I incorporated it. My taxes (on a percentage) were lower than my salary as a teacher. I made much more as a corporate business owner and paid a lower tax rate. It was/is all above board and it is not a fair tax IMHO.

I then started to invest in Real Estate a few years back and incorporated that business under a different name.

The bottom line is that many people have no clue that the "common folk" are making up for the perks that a Corporation enjoys. I enjoy it but I don't think it is right.

Unless you own a Corporation you are looking at it from the outside and you listen to people that actually own one and they are filling you full of crap. If you do own a Corporation and don't get these perks, you need a new accountant.

I’m assuming you’re talking about a C-Corp because those are the companies we are talking about with this bill. S-corp is a whole other discussion and can pay less. But, not an option for large companies so irrelevant in this discussion.

And no- if you were a C-corp your taxes would be significantly higher than when you were a teacher.

Side note- if I were king, this sort of thing wouldn’t exist. I think it’s dumb that the same business can be taxed differently just by changing their business type.

In my kingdom….. income is income. Doesn’t matter if you work a job, sell an investment or own a company. All taxed the same.

And the new IRS agents aren’t going to be going after those sole proprietors and cash businesses. Just the higher income ones:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/09...-heres-who-the-irs-may-target-for-audits.html

Honestly it doesn’t make sense to spend time auditing the people breaking the most common laws because 1. Hard to prove and 2. Isn’t enough money to be worthwhile.

Ever met someone who gets paid in cash tips who reports ALL their income? Ever had someone work in your house who gives a cash discount? Most common tax fraud, but near impossible to catch/convict.

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[bp99]

Well in that case this should be obvious. Have you looked at pollution in Chinese cities? Forcing production to places where there's something resembling an EPA (eg, US & free trade partners) is going to force battery manufacturing to be cleaner. So you actually do get something in exchange for higher costs.

You can of course decide you don't care and screw the environment, but then you're just an ass. Or an oil exec.

But it won't bring it to the US. Environmental policy, regulations and red tape are so overboard, that it takes years to even get a permit. Add in lawsuits from the same environmental groups that are demanding an end to oil, but also don't want any sort of mining or industrialization in their backyards, and nearly no project ever gets past the proposal stage.

And if you want to know why many people stop caring and are willing to "screw the environment", it's because of the constant Chicken Little proclamations about the end of the world and the demands that we completely destroy our economy and quality of life because of such. Moderation is the key to getting people on board. Extremist rants just turn people off (or indoctrinate a vocal few in to the cult).

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes we should eliminate all regulations to cut costs and let the companies who make a fortune do what they want?

Once again we can then walk across the Hudson and other rivers and west gas mask

No, but we can eliminate many regulations and many taxes, boosting the economy and creating jobs. I guess you hate that idea?

The More Inflation Bill does the opposite, and I think raising taxes and regulations is really bad policy. It hurts people.

Corporations are comprised of people. They are not imaginary entities. And the economy is negatively impacted when corporations are negatively impacted. The More Inflation Bill is horrible.

BTW - get ready for your first IRS audit.

 

[kennethjk]

No, but we can eliminate many regulations and many taxes, boosting the economy and creating jobs. I guess you hate that idea?

The More Inflation Bill does the opposite, and I think raising taxes and regulations is really bad policy. It hurts people.

Corporations are comprised of people. They are not imaginary entities. And the economy is negatively impacted when corporations are negatively impacted. The More Inflation Bill is horrible.

BTW - get ready for your first IRS audit.

I am ok for many more IRS audits. People have been cheating , not reporting cash etc more than ever especially cash businesses

The return on dollars to govt is fantastic . Why wouldn’t we support the IRS to bring in more revenue from corps etc . Have nothing to hide, audit is no big deal

I am all for boosting jobs, I think we already have unemployment at 3.5 historically low.

Time to create higher paying jobs. This bill won’t stop that

Time will tell who is right or wrong .

 

[Mach1E]

I am ok for many more IRS audits. People have been cheating , not reporting cash etc more than ever especially cash businesses

The return on dollars to govt is fantastic . Why wouldn’t we support the IRS to bring in more revenue from corps etc . Have nothing to hide, audit is no big deal

I am all for boosting jobs, I think we already have unemployment at 3.5 historically low.

Time to create higher paying jobs. This bill won’t stop that

Time will tell who is right or wrong .

FWIW I’m ok with more audits too.

But like mentioned in the article link above, they aren’t targeting the most common offenders, just the biggest offenders.

It does make sense from a practical standpoint to do it that way though. But those cash businesses? Not the target even though EVERYONE knows they’re breaking the law.

 

[DennisD]

No, but we can eliminate many regulations and many taxes, boosting the economy and creating jobs. I guess you hate that idea?

The More Inflation Bill does the opposite, and I think raising taxes and regulations is really bad policy. It hurts people.

Corporations are comprised of people. They are not imaginary entities. And the economy is negatively impacted when corporations are negatively impacted. The More Inflation Bill is horrible.

BTW - get ready for your first IRS audit.

Google" Which President has lost the most jobs?" Then, just for fun google "which President gained the most jobs". I am going to guess you would hate the idea of bringing the latter one back but I digress.

Deregulation (or the lack of regulation) is the main reason we are suffering with this climate disaster unfolding before our eyes.

This is the first Bill that actually tries to do something to curb this. I emphasize "try" because there are very few that are willing to do what it actually takes but I will take what I can get.

Your speculation is amusing but that is about all I can say when I read your summations. At the end of the day, if we don't do something it won't matter how much the Corporations or tax payers save or spend. If you would allow me to use this analogy, I would rather live in a rickety house than an expensive one on fire. At least the rickety one will help. But the one on fire sure was nice while it lasted.

Tax or no tax, someone will need to pay for the misdeeds of the people before us. I would prefer to start with the people that pay little to no taxes and work my way down and let the chips fall where they may lay.

This new Bill is a good start.

 

[Mach1E]

Google" Which President has lost the most jobs?" Then, just for fun google "which President gained the most jobs". I am going to guess you would hate the idea of bringing the latter one back but I digress.

Deregulation (or the lack of regulation) is the main reason we are suffering with this climate disaster unfolding before our eyes.

This is the first Bill that actually tries to do something to curb this. I emphasize "try" because there are very few that are willing to do what it actually takes but I will take what I can get.

Your speculation is amusing but that is about all I can say when I read your summations. At the end of the day, if we don't do something it won't matter how much the Corporations or tax payers save or spend. If you would allow me to use this analogy, I would rather live in a rickety house than an expensive one on fire. At least the rickety one will help. But the one on fire sure was nice while it lasted.

Tax or no tax, someone will need to pay for the misdeeds of the people before us. I would prefer to start with the people that pay little to no taxes and work my way down and let the chips fall where they may lay.

This new Bill is a good start.

Just for giggles, I did your google search.

And while technically correct, do you think it was the result of “good president vs bad president,” or do you think COVID shutdowns may have played a part?

Had the big bad orange president gotten re-elected, the chart wouldn’t look much different for job growth these last 2 years.

The president doesn’t really create jobs (except government ones). While they tend to take the credit and blame for the economy, their policies typically only slightly speed it up or slightly slow it down….. not change the trajectory.

I don’t think it mattered who the President was or is these last few years. The shutdown and recovery would have looked pretty much the same.

 

[Regulus7]

Historically the USA has collected about 20% of GDP in taxes… regardless of tax rates and policies. This goes all the way back almost a hundred years even in the 1950s when the top marginal rate was like 90%. Rich people and large corporations have an army of tax professionals to exploit the code. None of this is wrong. It’s just following the law efficiently. As stockholders we should want our companies to seek ways to pay the lowest taxes.

Fortunately the USA has alot of give and take in its policy making process as a function of its plurality democracy and republic form of government. Sure we could optimize the running Of the government much better if we had an enlightened technocratic leader like Lee Kwan Yew who in the 20th century was probably the best technocratic leader of any country. But then we would not be a democracy. So we have to take the good with the bad.

In this bill I think the EV tax policy is bad. They should just have expanded the 200k limit and left it as is. But I like the solar tax extension and I plan to install panels in the next year or two. The corporation minimum tax is also a mixed bag as they will likely raise prices to maintain margins.

Overall the problem with the tax code is just that it’s too big and too complicated. A simple tax code with equalized levels of taxes along a progressive scale with just a few deductions for qualified investments would seem the best idea but alas there are too many lobbyists out there for that ever to happen!

 

[DennisD]

Just for giggles, I did your google search.

And while technically correct, do you think it was the result of “good president vs bad president,” or do you think COVID shutdowns may have played a part?

Had the big bad orange president gotten re-elected, the chart wouldn’t look much different for job growth these last 2 years.

The president doesn’t really create jobs (except government ones). While they tend to take the credit and blame for the economy, their policies typically only slightly speed it up or slightly slow it down….. not change the trajectory.

I don’t think it mattered who the President was or is these last few years. The shutdown and recovery would have looked pretty much the same.

You were the one that brought up "job creation" my friend.

I really don't want this to turn Political but rather I would like to see everyone work for the common good of humanity.

Until both sides of the aisles wake up to the burning planet, you are basically stuck with what the one side will present to you.

 

[Mach1E]

You were the one that brought up "job creation" my friend.

I really don't want this to turn Political but rather I would like to see everyone work for the common good of humanity.

Until both sides of the aisles wake up to the burning planet, you are basically stuck with what the one side will present to you.

That wasn’t me.

 

[kennethjk]

FWIW I’m ok with more audits too.

But like mentioned in the article link above, they aren’t targeting the most common offenders, just the biggest offenders.

It does make sense from a practical standpoint to do it that way though. But those cash businesses? Not the target even though EVERYONE knows they’re breaking the law.

I get it and no matter how much resources IRS it wouldn’t be enough to go after everyone. Need to go after biggest bang for the buck

 

[DennisD]

That wasn’t me.

Sorry, I assumed because you responded to my ask.

In any event, I guess you found out.

 

[mkhuffman]

I would rather live in a rickety house than an expensive one on fire. At least the rickety one will help. But the one on fire sure was nice while it lasted.

Well Dennis, there it is. You know more taxes and regulations will destroy the economy and put us all in a run down shack. You admitted it. And you think it is OK because of the weather.

Great. I don't. I think people shouldn't be on the street or living in run down shacks just because we have a changing climate.

At least we agree the More Inflation Bill will do just what I said it will.

 

[mkhuffman]

That wasn’t me.

It was me.

 

[mkhuffman]

You were the one that brought up "job creation" my friend.

I really don't want this to turn Political but rather I would like to see everyone work for the common good of humanity.

Until both sides of the aisles wake up to the burning planet, you are basically stuck with what the one side will present to you.

The planet isn't burning. Not even close.

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