Tesla Model Y vs Mustang Mach-E (my thoughts)

[Hammered]

Yeah, if you're rural or drive long stretches of highways, dimming the screens is a must. Just no way around that regardless the style. An adaptive HUD would be an easy fit. Surprised there isn't more of an ambient night setting in vehicles. Really cheap to implement an off/ + 3 auto settings would go a long way in that realm in street lights v. rural

As for controls, behind a screen there's zero tactile feedback. You must be attentive to it during operation. Buttons do not require you to look at to feel/press or in the case of knobs, rotate.
Easy relevant example -- on a keyboard you type. Screen keyboard you hunt/peck. There's no comparison here.

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[DevSecOps]

Buttons have only disappeared due to bean counting and some manufactures have already started walking back from screen only approaches due to negative feedback.

I'm going to disagree with both of those respectfully.

A 14" monitor is not cheaper than a bunch of plastic buttons.
Most of the negative feedback about buttons is coming from a generation that won't be driving much longer. Car companies won't be rolling anything back for those people.

 

[stealthytolkien]

Thank you for sharing. With all due respect - My honest response to your write up is that this is by far the most underwhelming Model Y vs Mach E “comparison” I’ve read to date, as almost all of your points don’t really make Y any worse or better than the MME in my book. They just make Y look like a different car by a different company. Which it is.

 

[Rabidsquirrel22]

Car companies won't be rolling anything back for those people.

Volkswagen Will Bring Back Physical Buttons In New Cars (insideevs.com)

We might not ever be going back to as many as we had in cars a decade ago, but the way touch screen and capacitive controls are implemented in many modern cars isn't great (VW is the worst offender imo) and a return to physical buttons would be an improvement.

 

[DevSecOps]

Volkswagen Will Bring Back Physical Buttons In New Cars (insideevs.com)

We might not ever be going back to as many as we had in cars a decade ago, but the way touch screen and capacitive controls are implemented in many modern cars isn't great (VW is the worst offender imo) and a return to physical buttons would be an improvement.

The same company that wants to be the next to remove the blinker stalk from the steering column?

It doesn't surprise me that a legacy company is going back to legacy ways. I don't see that being something that continues as a trend.

I might be wrong but we'll have to come back in 10 years to see.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

As it was pointed out, a lot of this is just due to inexperience in the Tesla. It does take a little more time to get used to.

But at the same time, you do have some valid criticisms and they same criticisms that we've had with Tesla.

Teslas are noisy with their alerts. For me, I get really annoyed with the binging every time I turn on or off Autopilot -- which means every time I changed lanes.

There is also a lot more road noise. We noticed it while on our Model Y road trip but we really noticed it when editing the video. We had to do so much more noise cancellation compared to the Mach-E. And every Tesla we've been in (including a Model S Plaid) has had some rattle or creak somewhere. Drives me nuts and reminds me of my Subaru WRX.

The door handles were one of the biggest reasons we didn't buy a Model Y. Liv has dexterity and grip issues and those door handles just don't work well. (BTW, there is an emergency release if you don't have power but don't use them unless it is an emergency because it may crack the window.)

Teslas charge fast at a low state of charge but they slow down quite a bit by the time they get to 65% or higher. And if it is a LFP model, the curve is really bad.

As you mentioned, range and the GOM are not great. It was overly optimistic the whole time. And I found it interesting that the 300+ mile range Model Y we had didn't do significantly better on the road trip to Vegas than in our 260 mile range Mach-E.

We had some other gripes too. We kept the AC on 66 and the car still felt warm. Normally, we keep our Mach-E between 68-70 and it feels great. This happened to us in multiple Model Ys too.

Did you have premium connectivity with your rental? We didn't and that made a big difference in the experience. We didn't have access to traffic data or Spotify/other music apps.

As usual you've summed it up excellently, Patrick. While I've only driven a few M3s, I agree with all of what you say. I especially hate the way Autopilot disengages so frequently (lane changes and even just avoiding potholes and such) and is so noisy about it. I do plan to try voice on the M3 I'm driving now, however.

If I am by myself, I usually have the music going. I don't want to interrupt the music to turn the wipers on. And if I have people with me, I don't want to interrupt our conversation to bark out a voice command.

Yup.

 

[DevSecOps]

I especially hate the way Autopilot disengages so frequently

I'm curious about this... Basic AP? I drive almost exclusively with Enhanced AP or FSD on, and while it's annoying due to the monitoring it never disables for anything really. It takes everything that the MME can't in BC with ease.

Yup.

I'm not harping on you specifically John, but again it's just people who don't know all the ins and outs of Tesla that complain about these things.

Tap the Car (Settings) icon in the bottom left corner of the touchscreen, followed by Safety & Security, then scroll to the bottom to find the on/off toggle for Joe Mode. Everything will get quiet. They introduced this setting because a guy on X complained to Elon that the beeps would wake his kids. 2 months later, Joe Mode.

If you want pointers or have questions about the M3 you're driving now send me a DM and I'll give you my number.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

I'm curious about this... Basic AP? I drive almost exclusively with Enhanced AP or FSD on, and while it's annoying due to the monitoring it never disables for anything really. It takes everything that the MME can't in BC with ease.



I'm not harping on you specifically John, but again it's just people who don't know all the ins and outs of Tesla that complain about these things.

Tap the Car (Settings) icon in the bottom left corner of the touchscreen, followed by Safety & Security, then scroll to the bottom to find the on/off toggle for Joe Mode. Everything will get quiet.

If you want pointers or have questions about the M3 you're driving now send me a DM and I'll give you my number.

Todd, in the M3 I'm currently driving, Joe Mode is enabled. (I'd hate to think of the racket if it were turned off.) But I interpreted Patrick's comment to mean that he didn't want to bark out a command to the car while he was having a conversation with others, not that he didn't want the car to bark out a command...

As for AP disengaging, I said it does so during lane changes and obstacle avoidance. While I have had it disengage on its own (e.g., the sun shining directly into one of the cameras), that's not the problem I'm referring to. I love that on the MME (and my Volvo before it) you can change lanes or make other adjustments and the car will react as it should: it let's you do what you need to do and then starting lane keeping again.

I've only driven a very limited amount in a M3P with FSD (test drove a friend's when I was considering buying it in early 2022), but even with that if I decided to make a lane change on my own (e.g., because there wasn't enough room for the car to do it on its own), it disengaged and needed to be manually reengaged once in the new lane.

 

[TheSteelRider]

I'm going to disagree with both of those respectfully.

A 14" monitor is not cheaper than a bunch of plastic buttons.
Most of the negative feedback about buttons is coming from a generation that won't be driving much longer. Car companies won't be rolling anything back for those people.

But, if there is ALREADY going to be a screen, then also having buttons does offend the bean counters. It's not that the screen is cheaper, it's that there is a screen in the first place.

 

[DennisD]

The same company that wants to be the next to remove the blinker stalk from the steering column?

It doesn't surprise me that a legacy company is going back to legacy ways. I don't see that being something that continues as a trend.

I might be wrong but we'll have to come back in 10 years to see.

https://insideevs.com/news/701296/vw-physical-controls-to-return/

https://slate.com/business/2023/04/cars-buttons-touch-screens-vw-porsche-nissan-hyundai.html

I go through many cars with my Driving Business and I have noticed a button here and there that wasn't once there are now starting to appear like they had in the past due to complaints from owners I am sure.

I am indifferent on it though. Once you get used to a particular car it really isn't a big deal but any rental car or if you occasionally drive the car (my wife's car), it really is annoying to hunt for the control w/o a physical knob to do the same.

It may be generational but knobs aren't going away totally IMO anytime too soon though. If people like them, they will stay.

 

[MacherAWD]

https://insideevs.com/news/701296/vw-physical-controls-to-return/

https://slate.com/business/2023/04/cars-buttons-touch-screens-vw-porsche-nissan-hyundai.html

I go through many cars with my Driving Business and I have noticed a button here and there that wasn't once there are now starting to appear like they had in the past due to complaints from owners I am sure.

I am indifferent on it though. Once you get used to a particular car it really isn't a big deal but any rental car or if you occasionally drive the car (my wife's car), it really is annoying to hunt for the control w/o a physical knob to do the same.

It may be generational but knobs aren't going away totally IMO anytime too soon though. If people like them, they will stay.

Personally side view mirrors, wipers, lights, blinkers I want a physical control I can reach for and use without taking my eyes off the road. I rarely adjust mirrors, wipers or lights while driving, but when I want to I dont want to use voice command or navigate through a screen. And I am typically the early tech adopter for those around me so I dont consider this a learning curve.

 

[4sallypat]

Thanks for this long post.

I am renting a Tesla today while my MME is in a mod shop.

 

[Jrny127]

Ok, so 90% of what you just wrote is because you didn't know what to do...

This forum is proof that there's a ton of people who get a MachE who have no clue what to do at the beginning. Like the MachE to some, Tesla is also a new experience, but it doesn't mean it "sucks" IMO, it just means you need to learn how to do things a different way, embrace change and try things in a way that you might not be used to. Once you get the hang of it, a lot of things that Tesla does start to make sense.

The Key - Yes there's no FOB and PaaK works flawlessly. Most people prefer this. Obviously some people want a physical key FOB still. I agree that the key cards can be finicky.

Headlights and Wipers - All you had to to was push in the right steering wheel button and say "turn on headlights" or "turn on wipers". It's actually that easy.

Door handle on power failure - There's a manual release right under the button you can pull.

Wheel adjustment - Just like any other modern vehicle it saves it to your profile. Since it was a rental you didn't have a profile. Additionally, the steering column has easy access where it will move out of the way to get in and out. The idea here is to set it once and forget it. When you first get a Tesla it's part of the walk-through on the screen before you drive away.

Chimes - Don't tell that to some people around here who say it let's you drive while your asleep, feet out the window, sunglasses at night while playing a tambourine. Yes the driver monitoring system is annoying as all hell.

Trunk - That's not the way it's supposed to be. Someone likely jacked it up

Shifter - That's the way a lot of newer vehicles are. Rivian does the same thing and many older cars had shifters on the drive column so it's not really new.

Turn signals - You likely had a setting on that enables auto-disablement. You can change that. You could have also only done a partial push.

Charging - All of your charge sessions were past 80%. You might not know this but that's no bueno unless you want to wait a LONG time. The MachE is the same. The charge rate is decreased beyond 80% on all EVs. There was really no reason to charge when you did.

Rear view mirror - A common complaint with Tesla, I agree there.

If you love Tesla so much, why do you have a MME? And why are you on this forum?

 

[Jrny127]

Just got home from a trip in Colorado, where we rented a Tesla Y for a week. We've been driving our Mach-E for 18 months now, winter and summer, and I wanted to leave my thoughts on the contrasts between the two similar vehicles.

The Tesla sucks. Really.

Yes, it was a rental, and yes there are some quantitative things to prefer about it, but as an actual vehicle to drive around and go places and do things? It's awful.

The key. There is no way to unlock the doors without a) your phone or b) tapping the key (which is a hotel-room style keycard) on a specific spot on the driver's door. That only unlocks the driver's door. To unlock other doors, you have to use the touchscreen. Locking the car is the same way. Tap the key on that same specific spot. The car also doesn't always detect the key inside, so about 50% of the time, I had to tap the same key on a specific spot on the center console while holding the brake pedal to "start." That's a lot of wallet movement in and out of my pocket, something I usually try to minimize.

The wipers. Couldn't figure out how to use them. I could make the window washer go, which would trigger the wipers, but otherwise they were stuck on automatic. I'm sure there's a setting in the touchscreen somewhere. One day we had a healthy layer of frost on the windshield and the wipers went into insanity overdrive mode for about eight minutes.

The headlights (and fog lights). Automatic only. Couldn't turn them on or off.

Turn signals. About 50% of the time, they turned off too soon or stayed on too long. There's no clicking in the stalk, you just kind of wiggle it up or down.

The shifter. Just a stalk on the right side of the wheel. Doesn't really move. Push up for R, push down for D. Click the button on the end in for P. Functional, but seems needlessly different with no obvious upside.

The wheel. To adjust the steering wheel, you need to find the right menu in the touchscreen. It does have a good range of motion when you do find it, but there's nothing obvious or expected about how to do so. Same with the mirrors.

The radio turned on twice, unexpectedly, and very loud. I'm sure I did something to cause this, but no idea what. There are no buttons anywhere, the controls are all on the touchscreen, and neither of us touched it. After the first time, we set the volume to 0, and two days later it reset to quite loud.

The chimes. Oh my god, the chimes. Be driving along normally, slightly approach one edge of the lane, maybe to make sure there's space between you and the truck you're passing, DING and the screen shows "VEHICLE DEPARTING THE LANE TAKE CONTROL IMMEDIATELY" and the wheel shudders. Note, at no point did I use any of the autopilot features, or even attempt to use basic cruise control. But I got this lane departure warning probably 200 times. If you're at a stop light and aren't already creeping when the light turns green, you get another DING. Occasionally, there's this kind of klaxon sound that came without a written indicator.

The speedometer is in the middle of the car. There is nothing in front of the driver gauge-wise.

Charging. First recharge was from 77%-95%. It took an hour. Second was from 45%-100%, which took 40 minutes. Third was from 81%-92%, which took an hour. Fourth was 50%-97%, which took 65 minutes. All at Tesla Superchargers, all after the battery preconditioned, all above 25 degrees, all being the only vehicle in a "block." I have no idea why they vary so much. I did like that you just plug the car in and it takes care of everything else. Range and the "GOM" seem a lot worse than our experience in the Mach E.

Trunk. The trunk opens with the push of a button, like ours. But it doesn't close all the way. Push the button to close and it lowers down, but doesn't latch. You then need to latch it manually, which makes this horrid grinding sound. This might just be an issue with the specific rental car we had, but at only 14,000 miles, seems pretty early for a failure of such a high-use component.

The Y is a lot louder than the Mach E. More road noise, more wind noise, more component noise.

Opening the doors from the outside is a huge pain, as you have to first push a button than manipulate this weird lever that pops out. Opening them from the inside is just a push button, which kind of leads to the nightmare scenario: what happens if you're inside one that suffers a complete power failure?

Horrid visibility out the rearview mirror.

Things I liked:

• the car seems even zippier than our Mach-E Premium. I don't ever leadfoot drive, so it's hard to tell, but it certainly has plenty of oomph. Not a big selling point for me.
• The side mirrors tilt down slightly when you shift into reverse. There's a post somewhere here about using Forscan to make a hack for that and it's a good feature Ford should consider.
• The screen is clearer and seems to have a quicker refresh rate.
• When you signal, the screen shows the corresponding left or right side view camera as well as your mirrors. I know our cars don't have those cameras, unfortunately.
• You can plug an SD card or USB stick in to auto-record all the camera feeds.
• When moving slowly toward an object, once you get within ~3', the screen shows you the distance in inches, which is neat when maneuvering in parking lots. Unfortunately, it seems to do this using cameras rather than a laser or ultrasound, so I don't know how reliable it is.

These are just my wife and my thoughts on a week of driving the Y, but I figured those in the Mach E community might be interested. I'm sure other people have different experiences, better or worse. I know the Mach E isn't perfect by any stretch, but it remains the best car I've ever driven.

Tesla is the number one car company…………. What for it……………. With the most car accidents!!!!!!!!!

 

[DRJJJJJ]

Ok, so 90% of what you just wrote is because you didn't know what to do...

This forum is proof that there's a ton of people who get a MachE who have no clue what to do at the beginning. Like the MachE to some, Tesla is also a new experience, but it doesn't mean it "sucks" IMO, it just means you need to learn how to do things a different way, embrace change and try things in a way that you might not be used to. Once you get the hang of it, a lot of things that Tesla does start to make sense.

The Key - Yes there's no FOB and PaaK works flawlessly. Most people prefer this. Obviously some people want a physical key FOB still. I agree that the key cards can be finicky.

Headlights and Wipers - All you had to to was push in the right steering wheel button and say "turn on headlights" or "turn on wipers". It's actually that easy.

Door handle on power failure - There's a manual release right under the button you can pull.

Wheel adjustment - Just like any other modern vehicle it saves it to your profile. Since it was a rental you didn't have a profile. Additionally, the steering column has easy access where it will move out of the way to get in and out. The idea here is to set it once and forget it. When you first get a Tesla it's part of the walk-through on the screen before you drive away.

Chimes - Don't tell that to some people around here who say it let's you drive while your asleep, feet out the window, sunglasses at night while playing a tambourine. Yes the driver monitoring system is annoying as all hell.

Trunk - That's not the way it's supposed to be. Someone likely jacked it up

Shifter - That's the way a lot of newer vehicles are. Rivian does the same thing and many older cars had shifters on the drive column so it's not really new.

Turn signals - You likely had a setting on that enables auto-disablement. You can change that. You could have also only done a partial push.

Charging - All of your charge sessions were past 80%. You might not know this but that's no bueno unless you want to wait a LONG time. The MachE is the same. The charge rate is decreased beyond 80% on all EVs. There was really no reason to charge when you did.

Rear view mirror - A common complaint with Tesla, I agree there.

I have a Model Y and a Mach E, I agree with some of these assessments in original post. Paak does not work flawlessly, has smiliar issues to MME. Wipers are very finicky and don't work in Auto as they should. The rear hatch does have issues opening when approached with PaaK, an lastly the car is definitely louder, particularly at highway speeds. Hwy efficiency is slightly less than MME as well. But overall both good cards

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