Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles over autopilot safety concerns

[MacherAWD]

Which is exactly the reason I prefer the system with Rivian where the hands on wheel is done by capacitive touch vs torque. The torque system can't be used effectively. I've made it clear many times in other posts that capacitive is the way to go.

But if the argument is that the system takes a long time to detect no hands, then how does that fair for hands free BC? Do you see my point? If the feds are going to require torque then my bet is that it will trickle down to BC.

I can tell you that if I pick up my phone while using FSD I'm alerted to pay attention in less than 5 seconds. The current system with Tesla is effective, the old way years ago, not so much. I wouldn't pay $800 for BCHF because my bet is it's next.

If the NHTSA (National Highway and Traffic Safety Admin) does research and comes to the conclusion that BC needs other checks then we can discuss that when the time comes. I for one would prefer a well running (not saying it is currently) government agency regulating our roadways then letting money hungry capitalists put whatever they want on the roads.

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[DevSecOps]

If the NHTSA (National Highway and Traffic Safety Admin) does research and comes to the conclusion that BC needs other checks then we can discuss that when the time comes. I for one would prefer a well running (not saying it is currently) government agency regulating our roadways then letting money hungry capitalists put whatever they want on the roads.

Maybe you should just stop driving.

I'm more concerned about drunk drivers and those who drive high than I am FSD. The statistics back my fear. Your fear based on capitalists is irrational. For some reason the same people complaining about capitalism are the ones legalizing the drugs that actually kill.

2021 - 10,000 impaired driving deaths
2021 - 1 FSD death

But it's not really about facts right?

 

[Mirak]

Autopilot isn’t autonomous and “full self driving” doesn’t make it self-driving.

How about a name change in addition to the recall?

Just a small quibble, but I don’t think “autopilot,” from when it first started being used in aviation, has ever meant fully autonomous. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the AP moniker.

Full Self Driving does seem to be a misnomer if you have to keep your hands on the wheel. I honestly thought FSD allowed you to go hands free and used the cabin cam to monitor for alertness. That’s not the case?

 

[machdady]

You're not getting it obviously. BC has the same issues as AP. Neither will prevent you from crashing into a stopped vehicle. So maybe you should stop using BC.

Those are just the facts. That's my biggest issue with people here. Be honest and be factual. Stop the hyperbole because you don't like Tesla. I think they are ugly, I don't agree with much of what Elon does, but I don't let that affect my judgement and make me say bat shit crazy things.

BTW I agree 100% that the naming convention of AP and FSD is very misleading and should be changed to prevent confusion. I realize it's a marketing tactic but it's deceptive.

not an expert but there is a difference with emergency vehicles. Cameras can’t see them to slow down the vehicle but sensors can.

 

[DevSecOps]

That’s not the case?

No it's not. You must use your hands in all versions of Tesla driver assist including FSD. Tesla has no hands free version of anything.

 

[DevSecOps]

not an expert but there is a difference with emergency vehicles. Cameras can’t see them to slow down the vehicle but sensors can.

It's quite literally just the opposite. Radar can't detect stationary objects well. Cameras are better at object detection but worse at distance estimation which is why non sensor Teslas don't have summon or good parking abilities. This is also the reason Tesla can take evasive actions to threats while in motion but the sensor based vehicles can't.

The best is a combination of both lidar sensors and cameras, which is what I'm hoping Rivian eventually achieves since they have 10 cameras and a boat load of sensors.

 

[MacherAWD]

Maybe you should just stop driving.

I'm more concerned about drunk drivers and those who drive high than I am FSD. The statistics back my fear. Your fear based on capitalists is irrational. For some reason the same people complaining about capitalism are the ones legalizing the drugs that actually kill.

2021 - 10,000 impaired driving deaths
2021 - 1 FSD death

But it's not really about facts right?

I also am against impaired driving. On the one hand I am for legalizing weed, it is a proven safe alternative to MANY manufactured drugs, but also dont think people should drive impaired.

 

[Mach-Lee]

They need to enable and use the driver monitoring camera for autosteer. Right now you can cover it and it still works. On older vehicles that don’t have driver monitoring, autosteer should be geofenced to protected access freeways only. And you should have to tap a button on the screen every so often to prove you’re awake if it doesn’t detect enough differences in steering torque.

Time to nag also needs to be decreased. You can have your hand off the wheel for almost a minute? before it nags. Should only allow like 15 seconds before it starts flashing.

Basically they need to make it so it fails the Teddy Bear test. Autopilot is too easy to bypass by putting a weight on the steering wheel. Right now you can put a weight on the steering wheel and take a nap in the back seat while the car drives. That needs to change.

Actually I’m a little disappointed NHTSA went lenient and didn’t require them to install driver monitoring cameras on all past vehicles and/or disable autosteer completely outside of protected access roads.

 

[txaggies07]

Just a small quibble, but I don’t think “autopilot,” from when it first started being used in aviation, has ever meant fully autonomous. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the AP moniker.

Full Self Driving does seem to be a misnomer if you have to keep your hands on the wheel. I honestly thought FSD allowed you to go hands free and used the cabin cam to monitor for alertness. That’s not the case?

I agree and hate that people complain about the name autopilot. Autopilot in an airplane has not historically flown the plane all by itself. It holds a heading and a speed, which is much closer to cruise control. Some autopilots in planes are more capable then that but historically they are not. The auto land system in the F-18 isn't called autopilot so let's not pretend typical autopilot can do that.

As to this current Tesla issue....
I hope we can all agree that if we are operating a motor vehicle we should indeed pay attention to the road. I like BC and use it often. If I had AP I would also use it. In both cases, I would still keep my eyes on the road and my hands on (for AP) or pretty much right there and still practically touching the steering wheel (BC).

 

[Mach-Lee]

And here’s a great example of why wheel torque (or even capacitive touch) alone is not robust enough safety for lane centering:



Notice she fell asleep with her hand on the wheel.

The design of the system should address the “asleep with hand on wheel” scenario.

 

[superdave80]

I agree and hate that people complain about the name autopilot. Autopilot in an airplane has not historically flown the plane all by itself.

99.9% of the general public are NOT pilots, so how autopilot functions for a plane is irrelevant to practically everybody.

 

[DevSecOps]

Because no one ever fell asleep in a non driver assist capable car right?

It might sound like I'm against improving safety, but it's just the opposite. If you want to make safety features work you have to make them so they don't annoy. If a safety feature is annoying no one will use it, which in turn makes everything less safe.

There has to be balance. Over regulation of a miniscule amount of deaths (as unfortunate as they are) isn't the solution.

Tesla has some of the safest vehicles on the road thanks to AP. But many people here are critiquing them, apparently for saving lives... strange! Facts don't seem to matter to many people around here.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

 

[Mach1E]

Because no one ever fell asleep in a non driver assist capable car right?

It might sound like I'm against improving safety, but it's just the opposite. If you want to make safety features work you have to make them so they don't annoy. If a safety feature is annoying no one will use it, which in turn makes everything less safe.

There has to be balance. Over regulation of a miniscule amount of deaths (as unfortunate as they are) isn't the solution.

Tesla has some of the safest vehicles on the road thanks to AP. But many people here are critiquing them, apparently for saving lives... strange! Facts don't seem to matter to many people around here.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

Facts matter, but you’re playing a shell game here.

Instead of focusing on the facts at hand, you keep pointing to OTHER irrelevant information.

The current system Tesla uses is deemed “unsafe” by the government and requires a recall. CASE CLOSED.

This has nothing to do with the other safe things it does, nothing to do with drunk driving accidents, nothing to with planes etc.


I feel like if we were talking about how someone left the back door unlocked in a store and it got robbed, you would try to bring up how safe the front door and windows are or how many stores with locked doors still got broken into………when all that matters is the back door needs to be locked.

I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to argue even. Do you think that no recall is needed or that the NHTSA got it wrong?

 

[MacherAWD]

Because no one ever fell asleep in a non driver assist capable car right?

It might sound like I'm against improving safety, but it's just the opposite. If you want to make safety features work you have to make them so they don't annoy. If a safety feature is annoying no one will use it, which in turn makes everything less safe.

There has to be balance. Over regulation of a miniscule amount of deaths (as unfortunate as they are) isn't the solution.

Tesla has some of the safest vehicles on the road thanks to AP. But many people here are critiquing them, apparently for saving lives... strange! Facts don't seem to matter to many people around here.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

I would add check your source? Tesla are great, Elon is known to lie/exaggerate/manipulate the system to look better, but by all means show me the stats he controls to justify your position (tesla.com)

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Because of my age and disabilities, I am really saddened to see the technology failing. I could benefit from a flawless self-driving car, especially for city use. My days behind the wheel are numbered.

I don’t think it’s failing. But rather a technology that still in development. We expect things to work 100 percent of the time yesterday. We have no patience anymore. Self driving is coming.

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