The EV Naysayers

[nvabill]

You guys are giving this way more thought than needed but, at least you haven't started another thread about somebody hogging your charger! ?

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[Mirak]

Whole lotta “take your medicine” on display in this thread. This is why people find environmentalists and EV enthusiasts so insufferable.

“Just because they’re unaffordable doesn’t mean they’re unsuitable.” Really?

“Most people don’t really need the range.” Insufferable. Cars are expensive. Which means people buy them for ALL use cases. Not just the 95% of in-town driving. Also the once a month road trip of a few hundred miles. It matters.

“The charge time isn’t really a big deal.” Evidently most people disagree - or are they just stupid rubes? Get out of your bubble and realize that most people don’t enjoy the challenge of locating a charger and taking a leisurely 30-45 minutes to “fill up” when they’re trying to get somewhere.

“Drilling for oil is bad for the environment, too.” Your point being?

TAKE YOUR MEDICINE!

 

[thekat03]

While no, EV driving still isn't for everyone, it is doable, and will become more and more doable with time, as more affordable EVs come to market, along with better infrastructure. Even towing over distance with an EV is doable. My husband towed a small utility trailer home from Ohio over the past 27-28 hours (hotel stay included, as well as numerous dog walks), with his C40, and didn't take a 50% hit on his range (actually, the range hit appears to have been nullified by driving 10 mph slower). Sure, most people aren't going to want to take the time to look for trailer friendly pull through chargers or park creatively to minimize impact on others, much less do the math to double check range estimates and verify charging targets per stop, but we don't mind helping pave the way and showing what can be done with EVs. It's a bumpy road right now, but it will get easier with time.

(His busiest stop, at the Auburn Mall in Massachusetts, where the bad parking at chargers 1-2 was because 1 was down, and the trailer blocked off charger 3, which also was down. Thankfully, an EA tech was out there fixing things.)

 

[ChasingCoral]

I don’t know. How much? And why didn’t democrats stop those subsidies when they controlled all branches of government? Or are they in on the conspiracy, too?

They tried and couldn’t get it through the Senate. If you don’t understand how that’s possible just look at how long one Senator has been holding up every flag-rank promotion in the military over a social issue.

 

[nvabill]

Remind me again, how much are we subsidizing the fossil fuel industry...annually?

And, we will continue to until these become electric, the military needs fossil fuel. Do you realize that personal use EV's are such a small piece of the pie in this world?

 

[dpnelson]

One thing holding back non-Tesla EV sales is that NACS has won the charging standard war, and every EV that isn't a Tesla has the wrong plug. Maybe that eases up a bit if DC fast charge adapters work well, but it'll probably still be an issue until next-gen EVs come out with a NACS plug.

 

[mattyhillnepp]

And, we will continue to until these become electric, the military needs fossil fuel. Do you realize that personal use EV's are such a small piece of the pie in this world?

I mean gasoline and diesel account for about 30% of annual co2 emissions

that isn’t jet fuel, just what people get at the gas station. (Source is EIA)

 

[nvabill]

I mean gasoline and diesel account for about 30% of annual co2 emissions

that isn’t jet fuel, just what people get at the gas station. (Source is EIA)

Exactly, a mere drop in the bucket in regards to fossil fuel use.

 

[mattyhillnepp]

30% is quite a lot.

Exactly, a mere drop in the bucket in regards to fossil fuel use.

30% of US emissions is more than 100% of Germany’s emissions. I’d say it’s quite a bit.

 

[superdave80]

It’s just a fact that due the limitations of current battery tech, EVs are not suitable or desirable for the vast majority of Americans.

I'd agree that current EVs can't replace all vehicles (looking at you and your ICE ban, California), but I'd argue that a majority of vehicles could easily be replaced by EVs. Go look at pictures of the morning commutes of major cities with tens of thousands of vehicles idling and stuck in stop and go traffic to get 30 miles to work. Those would be perfect to replace with EVs.

 

[nvabill]

30% is quite a lot.

30% of US emissions is more than 100% of Germany’s emissions. I’d say it’s quite a bit.

You do realize Germany is about the size of Montana? But either way ice automobiles are a mere drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things as to fossil fuel use. Your statistic mentions diesel fuel and that’s mainly trucks. And hell, that’s just road use at the pump, we haven’t even scratched the surface with aircraft, locomotives, ships, mining equipment, etc. etc. etc. well, you get the point.

 

[mattyhillnepp]

You do realize Germany is about the size of Montana? But either way ice automobiles are a mere drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things as to fossil fuel use. Your statistic mentions diesel fuel and that’s mainly trucks. And hell, that’s just road use at the pump, we haven’t even scratched the surface with aircraft, locomotives, ships, mining equipment, etc. etc. etc. well, you get the point.

I didn’t realize that Montana was home to over 80 million people.

 

[FCCinAZ]

I’ll be very disappointed if the BEV is the big advance in transportation that I’ve been waiting for since I was a kid in the 70’s and we were all waiting for the world to run out of oil.

I’ll never give up my ICE and become an all BEV household because while it’s adequate for 90% of my use, I still like the freedom associated with the other 10%. I never worry when my gas tank is at 3/8ths.

As for subsidies and mandates, it is a well documented phenomenon that they stifle innovation. My fear is that I’ll never get my flying car that futurists promised me!

A final thought is that we need a national approach to the energy solution. I’ve long advocated for an additional fuel tax and mileage tax for BEV’s that was dedicated to a NASA like agency focused on clean energy innovation. Bet they’d come up with something better than lugging around an 1800 lb storage system that takes 20 min to charge.

 

[Auto Motive]

Good article. A lot of these recent stories have focused on Ford and GM slowing down production. It’s interesting that none of them mention that Hyundai and Kia are increasing production and that they’re trying to speed up the opening of their Georgia plant. They don’t mention that BWM and Mercedes EV sales in the US as a percentage of their overall US vehicle sales are higher than Ford and GM. And most of the articles glance over the fact that the Model Y is the best selling car in the world; all inconvenient points to make.

All of the points the author made are valid and correct. One thing he didn’t mention, but ties into what he was talking about is the fear of the Chinese EVs from policy makers in Europe and the US as seen in the methods of protectionism that are being proposed.

At the end of the day, if we block Chinese EVs that are made in Mexico or we place massive tariffs on them to “protect” our industry, consumers lose. GM and Ford aren’t being helped by blocking the Chinese. If you allow the Chinese into the market, consumers will get cheaper, well made EVs and GM and Ford would have to learn how to produce cost effective EVs that still have good quality.

At the pace we’re currently on, 5 years from now, GM and Ford would continue to claim that they can’t produce a profitable EV in the 28k price range. So we need a Toyota/Honda moment like when those companies 1st entered the US and European markets. That moment brought lower prices and new competition.

Only problem is China pay subsutiz

I don’t know. How much? And why didn’t democrats stop those subsidies when they controlled all branches of government? Or are they in on the conspiracy, too?

$20,000,000 billion and both political parties are at fault.
Keeping lobbyists in DC is the problem from pharma to oil and all the others. Billions in salaries to wine and dine our Senators.

 

[tomking29]

Only problem is China pay subsutiz

$20,000,000 billion and both political parties are at fault.
Keeping lobbyists in DC is the problem from pharma to oil and all the others. Billions in salaries to wine and dine our Senators.

My intention with my original post was not to start a debate. I think ICE vs. EV should be looked at objectively by the buyer. It’s almost like leasing versus buying. Some people are very passionately anti-lease when really leasing suits a lot of people. Back to EVs, I am ideally suited financially, attached garage, shorter commute and my wife has an ICE car. So it’s ideal for ME.

It’s unfortunate to see the extremes yell from their corners which I often think comes down to politics, misinformation and lack of empathy. And when government mandates get added to the mix, it just makes it worse.

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