The EV Naysayers

[ctenidae]

I feel like adoption, incentives, and infrastructure build are all actually moving along just fine. EV's aren't weird anymore, you can generally find a charger when you need, and used Mach e GTs are surprisingly affordable (sad face).

Why anyone would bother to be "against" EVs boggles my mind. Other than political ambitions or just a bloody-minded argumentative nature, why spend any effort on being against it? What possible difference does it make if your neighbor plugs their car in? Everyone I've ever talked to that feels like their freedoms are being impinged has quickly come around when asked how, exactly, that happens.

Some people have nothing better to be upset about, I guess. Maybe that means the country is doing just fine...

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[ChasingCoral]

And, we will continue to until these become electric, the military needs fossil fuel. Do you realize that personal use EV's are such a small piece of the pie in this world?

So, what is your point? Just because taking cars electric doesn’t solve the whole problem yet there’s no sense making changes where we can?

 

[llinthicum1]

No doubt EVs are the future. Current reality is that demand has fallen off and manufactures have adjusted output to met that demand. While demand may have droppped, interest has not. Many consumers are considering an EV and / or PHEV. But range and cost are holding consumers back.

 

[Mach1E]

Good article!

Very true that in North America, we are at a disadvantage compared to Europe and Asia.

When I was in Europe this past summer, lots of EVs with chargers abound.

EVs work better in Europe for the same reasons trains work better in Europe.

Much higher population density and shorter distances to travel.

 

[Mach1E]

No doubt EVs are the future. Current reality is that demand has fallen off and manufactures have adjusted output to met that demand. While demand may have droppped, interest has not. Many consumers are considering an EV and / or PHEV. But range and cost are holding consumers back.

I think the government needs to take a step back and realize PHeV isn’t a half measure, it really is the solution for most of the country.

Fixes all the range, cost, material, and infrastructure issues……..while helping the environment.

 

[nvabill]

I didn’t realize that Montana was home to over 80 million people.

I never said it was.

 

[nvabill]

EVs work better in Europe for the same reasons trains work better in Europe.

Much higher population density and shorter distances to travel.

Exactly, hence my reference to the size of Germany in response to another poster.

 

[ChasingCoral]

No doubt EVs are the future. Current reality is that demand has fallen off and manufactures have adjusted output to met that demand. While demand may have droppped, interest has not. Many consumers are considering an EV and / or PHEV. But range and cost are holding consumers back.

Most of these articles seem to miss the fact that the Korean triplets are selling all the BEVs they make and looking to build their new US plant ASAP!

 

[nvabill]

So, what is your point? Just because taking cars electric doesn’t solve the whole problem yet there’s no sense making changes where we can?

No. not at all, simply that so many talk as if EV's are doing away with everything ICE and fossil fuel use and it ain't even close!

 

[nvabill]

I think the government needs to take a step back and realize PHeV isn’t a half measure, it really is the solution for most of the country.

Fixes all the range, cost, material, and infrastructure issues……..while helping the environment.

Ford has admitted this is the approach they should have been paying more attention to, PHEV.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/12/ford-cfo-says-company-became-complacent-on-hybrids/

 

[ChasingCoral]

No. not at all, simply that so many talk as if EV's are doing away with everything ICE and fossil fuel use and it ain't even close!

Quite true but another bit of good news is that the US military has been innovating approaches to use renewables to cut down on fossil fuel use in many scenarios. The Navy’s green fleet initiagive has been underway for almost 15 years. Marine Expeditionary forces have made great strides at energy self-sufficiency in forward deployments to reduce their reliance on expensive and risky fossil fuel transport. Various military branches are now looking into EVs for multiple applications.

Yes, we’re a long way from getting the US military off fossil fuels but progress is being made.

 

[nvabill]

My intention with my original post was not to start a debate. I think ICE vs. EV should be looked at objectively by the buyer. It’s almost like leasing versus buying. Some people are very passionately anti-lease when really leasing suits a lot of people. Back to EVs, I am ideally suited financially, attached garage, shorter commute and my wife has an ICE car. So it’s ideal for ME.

It’s unfortunate to see the extremes yell from their corners which I often think comes down to politics, misinformation and lack of empathy. And when government mandates get added to the mix, it just makes it worse.

As you say the two of you have an ICE backup but everyone can not afford that so they don't feel 100% EV is for them when they only have on vehicle.

 

[nvabill]

Quite true but another bit of good news is that the US military has been innovating approaches to use renewables to cut down on fossil fuel use in many scenarios. The Navy’s green fleet initiagive has been underway for almost 15 years. Marine Expeditionary forces have made great strides at energy self-sufficiency in forward deployments to reduce their reliance on expensive and risky fossil fuel transport. Various military branches are now looking into EVs for multiple applications.

Yes, we’re a long way from getting the US military off fossil fuels but progress is being made.

Good info, thanks.

 

[Vulnox]

Man it drives me crazy when someone says PHEVs are the better option, they are the worst of both worlds in most situations. You still have oil changes, still have fuel ups, still have battery packs but now they aren't in a format that is as easy to repair/recycle as the larger packs and often take up cargo space in some capacity (not always, it's definitely better these days on that front).

We have owned PHEVs, they had a point where they were nice to have. But all they end up showing people is how little you need that engine. Our first PHEV was a C-Max Energi and it took my wife 3+ months to get through that tiny I think 9 gallon fuel tank enough to warrant filling up. The kicker to that was most of that fuel consumption wasn't because the battery ran out either, it was from the car's required "maintenance" engine runs which it did automatically. It's what pushed us to try a Focus Electric and eventually the Mach-e. We were just still doing maintenance and environmentally unfriendly oil changes and the rest just to avoid the couple times per year we might need a DCFC.

I get PHEVs like the RAMCharger for towing situations, but day-to-day, not so much. Plus they find that many people end up not charging their PHEVs as much as they should, leading to more waste on the battery end as you just have people effectively driving around a huge battery they are mostly not using.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...t-plug-in-so-often-and-epa-is-adjusting-to-it

As for the other stuff like battery mining and the like, that is improving constantly while methods of extracting oil like fracking is only getting worse.

As for charging times, unless you road trip monthly, you are almost always coming out ahead with a BEV. We have had the Mach-e since September 2022, and while I only got this F-150 PowerBoost (Hybrid) in July 2023, I had another F-150 PB before it. If you take the amount of time I have spent driving to and filling up at gas stations since September 2022 for the hybrid and compare it to the amount of time we have spent at DCFC with the Mach-e, oh man, I have spent WAAAAYYYY more time "filling up" that F-150, even though the F-150s had less than half the miles put on them in that time.

People get hung up on individual fill up timing, but not frequency/annual timing. Even if each fill up is only 5 minutes, doing that every week or every other week adds up quick. Blowing well past what time we spent on two road trips in the MME in that time.

BEVs aren't perfect, and the infrastructure obviously has maturing to do. But the Pros/Cons comparison is far better for the BEV than a new ICE or PHEV, with the exception of those living in apartments/condos and don't have charging access. That is still a big issue, no arguments there, I am talking just for those that are considering both and have home charging options.

 

[ctenidae]

EVs work better in Europe for the same reasons trains work better in Europe.

Much higher population density and shorter distances to travel.

And a general social mentality that uses trains/mass transit more, rather than our rugged American individualism that drives our need to have our own seperate car.

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