V2H possible with MachE

[charliec]

I have a 2021 CR1, Job 1 Mach-e that I love. I just leased a second EV - a Kia EV9. The EV9 soon will be capable of powering my home via the Vehicle to Home (V2H) protocol when used with a bidirectional charger. Once the international standards body for V2H has completed their work, Kia can send an OTA update to enable that feature. I have a 14 KW solar array on my roof with only a 10 kWh home battery (Enphase system). That battery can run my home for only few hours unless I severely limit the electrical load, so I am looking forward to powering my home for longer periods of time during our frequent power outages by using the Kia with an Enphase bidirectional charger. Does anyone know whether or not my Mach-e also is physically capable of doing V2H if Ford were to provide an appropriate software upgrade once the final V2H standards are in place? I know the Ford and GM electric pickups can do V2H, but I understand that they use proprietary systems. The international standard will allow any EV to work with any bidirectional charger -- no proprietary lock in.

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[tbrumleve]

No, the Mach E does not have the hardware for V2H. The Lightning is the only Ford model that has it currently.

 

[charliec]

No, the Mach E does not have the hardware for V2H. The Lightning is the only Ford model that has it currently.

Thanks for the quick reply. That is a bummer, but it makes me glad I added the Kia to my stable of EVs.

 

[bbulkow]

There are posts about adding inverters of various types.

V2h appears to supply ac, not dc, thus may require extra gear with your solar array and battery system, which don't have a natural spot to insert 240v ac sources. And is then limited by the inverter in your car. It appears shipping systems are going with 9.6kw output, which honestly is quite a bit. My house rarely pulls over 1kw (unless i am charging my car)

The lightning inverter is fairly small (1.5kw?) and may not power your house. Reading up on how load moderation works...

The mache can easily be wired at 2kw or 6kw, both have been discussed here. Not exactly plug and play.

 

[Maquis]

The lightning inverter is fairly small (1.5kw?) and may not power your house. Reading up on how load moderation works...

If you’re talking about the F150 Lightning, it has a 2.4 KW inverter that serves the frunk and interior outlets.
If it has the optional ProPower Onboard, there is an additional 7.2 KW inverter in the bed.

 

[charliec]

There may be some misunderstanding here of the differences between V2H, V2G, and V2L. In the first two, the vehicle feeds DC current back to a bidirectional charger, which inverts it to AC for further use, whereas with V2L the DC current is inverted to AC by the vehicle and is usually output through a conventional AC socket. Most V2L capable vehicles in the U.S. output a maximum of 1800 watts via a standard 120 volt outlet although they may have more than one outlet, and not all outlets can output 1800 watts. Some vehicles, such a the Ford F-160 Lighting with the "Pro Power Onboard" option can output over 9 kW in this manner through four conventional 120 volt outlets and one 240 volt outlet. From there, various extension cords bring AC power to whatever devices can use it. In contrast, V2H feeds 240 volt AC power from a bidirectional charger directly into a home's electrical panel for further distribution throughout the home via the electrical panel. V2G works the same way except that the power is fed back into the utility company's electrical grid, typically at times of peak load. My Kia EV9 will be able to output as much as 11.5 kW to my home in this manner once V2H is enabled for it. That feature is awaiting the finalization of ISO 15188, the proposed international standard (from the International Electrotechnical Commission) for V2H and V2G communications between a bidirectional charger and a vehicle. This will allow any V2H capable vehicle to work with any bidirectional charger provided both comply with ISO 15188, thereby avoiding proprietary system lock in.

 

[Just Lurking]

It's been implied in interviews that the mach-e MIGHT be capable of V2H at some point, though it was never confirmed (at least to my knowledge) whether that implies that all vehicles are capable with the appropriate external hardware and software update, or whether the implication is only FUTURE Mach-Es could get the capability.

I'll say this much, V2H support will be a critical factor in my next EV purchase. Some of my neighbors are currently in the midst of a multi-day power outage. Not fun at all.

The mache can easily be wired at 2kw or 6kw, both have been discussed here. Not exactly plug and play.

I've seen the detailed threads on how to set up the car to export up to about 2 kilowatts of power, but not 6 kilowatts. I'm guessing that involves tapping into a higher voltage line somewhere? Would you mind linking that thread or threads if you have them handy? Thanks!

 

[silverelan]

I thought I remember Darren Palmer saying that the MME had the same hardware as the Lightning and that it technically could export power from the chargeport but that Ford had no plans to do so.

 

[bbulkow]

It's been implied in interviews that the mach-e MIGHT be capable of V2H at some point, though it was never confirmed (at least to my knowledge) whether that implies that all vehicles are capable with the appropriate external hardware and software update, or whether the implication is only FUTURE Mach-Es could get the capability.

I'll say this much, V2H support will be a critical factor in my next EV purchase. Some of my neighbors are currently in the midst of a multi-day power outage. Not fun at all.



I've seen the detailed threads on how to set up the car to export up to about 2 kilowatts of power, but not 6 kilowatts. I'm guessing that involves tapping into a higher voltage line somewhere? Would you mind linking that thread or threads if you have them handy? Thanks!

I don't have the thread handy. Yes, it is using the heater port afair, using a particular variable dc to dc built for solar, then an inverter. It's a bit more aggressive than going after the 12v bus, but being at higher voltage has a lot of benefit. Hopefully you'll be able to find the thread with this hint.

My house now has multiday outages every year, after 25 years of solid power. We are still at the primitive point of running extension cords to key parts of the house. I can pull out the 2kw genny but just plugging in the mache is better. Getting the house fully wired to accept a non grid source is the long pole.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I thought I remember Darren Palmer saying that the MME had the same hardware as the Lightning and that it technically could export power from the chargeport but that Ford had no plans to do so.

Yeah, they could have the computer close the contactors to energize the DC pins, but that would require a lot of other safety checks first and a way to communicate with the load side of the equipment. Once again the software implementation will be a huge barrier. I don't ever see this happening on the Mach-E due to the complexity and interpretability required with a 3rd party V2H device. There is no industry standard, and Ford already sells a floundering V2H system for those that really want it.

So, V2H is not coming to the Mach-E. Perhaps on the next generation product.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Yeah, they could have the computer close the contactors to energize the DC pins, but that would require a lot of other safety checks first and a way to communicate with the load side of the equipment. Once again the software implementation will be a huge barrier. I don't ever see this happening on the Mach-E due to the complexity and interpretability required with a 3rd party V2H device. There is no industry standard, and Ford already sells a floundering V2H system for those that really want it.

So, V2H is not coming to the Mach-E. Perhaps on the next generation product.

LOL right now, Ford is giving away their V2H solution if you buy a new EV. Great for F150 Lightning buyers. Not so great (but still good) for Mach-E buyers. ?‍?

 

[Mach-Lee]

LOL right now, Ford is giving away their V2H solution if you buy a new EV. Great for F150 Lightning buyers. Not so great (but still good) for Mach-E buyers. ?‍?

Just the 80A charger, which is a passthrough device. They’re not giving away the boxes that actually do the power conversion and transfer switch.

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