VW Solid State Battery

[AliRafiee]

sorry... just like fuel cells, solid state batteries are mostly "science projects" at the minute... yes they can work, but not in the messy real world. "soon"... think 5-10 more years to figure out production at scale.

Keep in mind we are nearly 50 years into the dev cycle of current Lithium batteries. They were invented in 1976.

The reason Li-ion hasn’t progressed more is because Mr. Goodenough thought what he did was good enough. ?

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[AliRafiee]

chargers will be as plentiful as gas stations way before that ever happens.

We got to get charge time down to a reasonable level, almost close to gasing up an ICE car. At that point, ICE will be dead. Not before that, in my opinion.

 

[Exordium01]

We got to get charge time down to a reasonable level, almost close to gasing up an ICE car. At that point, ICE will be dead. Not before that, in my opinion.

Charge time doesn’t need to match gas refueling time because public chargers are really only necessary for road trips which are a small fraction of most drivers’ total mileage. Most people “fuel up” at home most of the time.

As already mentioned, a 5 minute charge isn’t feasible for long range consumer vehicles.

 

[AliRafiee]

Charge time doesn’t need to match gas refueling time because public chargers are really only necessary for road trips which are a small fraction of most drivers’ total mileage. Most people “fuel up” at home most of the time.

As already mentioned, a 5 minute charge isn’t feasible for long range consumer vehicles.

Not everyone lives in a house and have the luxury to charge at home. If I didn’t own a house it would be unlikely that I would drive an EV.

 

[Blue highway]

The reason ICEV owners don't charge at home is because they don't have to. It takes 5 minutes at a gas station to recover 100% of 400 miles of range (most ICEV carry such a fuel load).

The system works for anyone regardless of what type of dwelling they live in and how they use their vehicle.

Your about the 3rd person to state that EV owners really don't need to use the public charging infrastructure. Yet, if the majority of EV owners charge at home and drive 40 miles a day, then why is the government spending billions of taxpayer funds to build the public network?

And by the time the magic solid state battery comes to fruition the old tech battery charging infrastructure will be built and then obsoleted because EVs will recover 600 miles in 5 minutes.

They are spending the money to enable road trips and increase adoption... the NEVI funds are specifically not spent in cities so that apartment dwellers can drive EVs.

 

[david_quick]

I’m happy that my QS shares are going up!

The most attractive part to me is the 5 minute charge time.

Volkswagen Solid State Batteries Exceed All Targets

https://carbuzz.com/news/volkswagen-solid-state-batteries-exceed-all-targets

I followed Solid State Battery technology professionally from the first time I heard about it in 2015 until I retired in July. I funded research projects seeking to use the tech in various platforms. The thing is it’s like nuclear fusion it’s always just a few years away just need to work out a few bugs. I’ll not be holding my breath.

 

[Mach1E]

The reason ICEV owners don't charge at home is because they don't have to. It takes 5 minutes at a gas station to recover 100% of 400 miles of range (most ICEV carry such a fuel load).

The system works for anyone regardless of what type of dwelling they live in and how they use their vehicle.

Your about the 3rd person to state that EV owners really don't need to use the public charging infrastructure. Yet, if the majority of EV owners charge at home and drive 40 miles a day, then why is the government spending billions of taxpayer funds to build the public network?

And by the time the magic solid state battery comes to fruition the old tech battery charging infrastructure will be built and then obsoleted because EVs will recover 600 miles in 5 minutes.

It’s basically the same circular problem.

And it leads me to the same conclusion-

If you can’t charge at home for the MAJORITY of your charging, owning an EV doesn’t make sense.

Even if they had infrastructure everywhere, charging anywhere else (no matter how fast) isn’t COST effective.

Speed and location of chargers aren’t the only problems.

Cost is extremely prohibitive. And even if you could theoretically charge 600 miles in 5 minutes (? unlikely), I can’t imagine how expensive that would be.

 

[Mach1E]

I'm not hooking THAT cable into an EV charge port. ?

Right?!?!

Some of these limits are legit physics problems.

How much electricity can you move in a limited amount of time without creating enough heat (waste) to start a fireball?

We would need some sort of hyper conductor at near absolute zero temps to pull this off.

Dumb version so I can understand-
You can only store so much energy in so much space and move it so quickly without a Kablooey!

Not kidding- I think the only viable solution to large electric cars isn’t batteries……. It’s nuclear.

Works great for our electric submarines.

 

[mkhuffman]

Right?!?!

Some of these limits are legit physics problems.

How much electricity can you move in a limited amount of time without creating enough heat (waste) to start a fireball?

We would need some sort of hyper conductor at near absolute zero temps to pull this off.

Dumb version so I can understand-
You can only store so much energy in so much space and move it so quickly without a Kablooey!

Not kidding- I think the only viable solution to large electric cars isn’t batteries……. It’s nuclear.

Works great for our electric submarines.

I agree. However, 600 miles in 20 minutes is possible with today's technology.

• Electric Tesla over the road semis and four Tesla 750kW charging stations to provide the semis with up to 400 miles of range in 1 hour of charging. PepsiCo and Frito-Lay are now the first company to have a commercial fleet featuring the electric semi.

So let's math this.

The Tesla semi battery capacity is 1,000 kWh. 400 miles is 400/500 = 80% of the total battery capacity, or 800 kWh. They must be doing some favorable rounding because a 750 kWh battery will take one hour to charge at a speed of 750 kW. So maybe the charger is pumping more than 750 kW at the beginning, and tapers down as it gets to 80%, for an average of 750 kW. I wish we had more specifics about how that works.

Anyway, a CR1 will go 600 miles with a 180 kWh battery. If charged with the Tesla Semi charger at the Frito Lay facility theoretically it could fully charge in 14.4 minutes. Theoretically.

From what I have read, the 750 kW Frito Lay charger cable and connector are not hard to handle.

One day it could be commonplace.

 

[mdolan92869]

I agree. However, 600 miles in 20 minutes is possible with today's technology.

• Electric Tesla over the road semis and four Tesla 750kW charging stations to provide the semis with up to 400 miles of range in 1 hour of charging. PepsiCo and Frito-Lay are now the first company to have a commercial fleet featuring the electric semi.

So let's math this.

The Tesla semi battery capacity is 1,000 kWh. 400 miles is 400/500 = 80% of the total battery capacity, or 800 kWh. They must be doing some favorable rounding because a 750 kWh battery will take one hour to charge at a speed of 750 kW. So maybe the charger is pumping more than 750 kW at the beginning, and tapers down as it gets to 80%, for an average of 750 kW. I wish we had more specifics about how that works.

Anyway, a CR1 will go 600 miles with a 180 kWh battery. If charged with the Tesla Semi charger at the Frito Lay facility theoretically it could fully charge in 14.4 minutes. Theoretically.

From what I have read, the 750 kW Frito Lay charger cable and connector are not hard to handle.

One day it could be commonplace.

I would not be sad if Frito Lay bought out and took over EA. Get some snacks while charging!

 

[Mjsabie]

Not everyone lives in a house and have the luxury to charge at home. If I didn’t own a house it would be unlikely that I would drive an EV.

True but I think before we see mass DC fast charging we will see Mass level 2. Think about a parking lot with half of the spots having level 2 chargers. Work places, malls, restaurants etc.. The great thing about EVs is they can be charged while we’re do other things. We need to stop trying to make the EV experience the same as an ICE car. DC fast charging is only really needed for road trips

 

[Maquis]

I agree. However, 600 miles in 20 minutes is possible with today's technology.

• Electric Tesla over the road semis and four Tesla 750kW charging stations to provide the semis with up to 400 miles of range in 1 hour of charging. PepsiCo and Frito-Lay are now the first company to have a commercial fleet featuring the electric semi.

So let's math this.

The Tesla semi battery capacity is 1,000 kWh. 400 miles is 400/500 = 80% of the total battery capacity, or 800 kWh. They must be doing some favorable rounding because a 750 kWh battery will take one hour to charge at a speed of 750 kW. So maybe the charger is pumping more than 750 kW at the beginning, and tapers down as it gets to 80%, for an average of 750 kW. I wish we had more specifics about how that works.

Anyway, a CR1 will go 600 miles with a 180 kWh battery. If charged with the Tesla Semi charger at the Frito Lay facility theoretically it could fully charge in 14.4 minutes. Theoretically.

From what I have read, the 750 kW Frito Lay charger cable and connector are not hard to handle.

One day it could be commonplace.

The T-Semi uses 1000V battery architecture. Therefore, 750 kw = a charge current of 750A. The highest EV DCFCs that I’m aware of today are capable of 500A, so 50% higher cable ampacity would be required. Not outrageously larger.

 

[mkhuffman]

True but I think before we see mass DC fast charging we will see Mass level 2. Think about a parking lot with half of the spots having level 2 chargers. Work places, malls, restaurants etc.. The great thing about EVs is they can be charged while we’re do other things. We need to stop trying to make the EV experience the same as an ICE car. DC fast charging is only really needed for road trips

Yes, exactly. I have been saying this for a long time. We need longer range cars, and a lot more L2 options. As long as they are not free. Free charging is horrible, because the freeloading a-holes hog all of them.

The T-Semi uses 1000V battery architecture. Therefore, 750 kw = a charge current of 750A. The highest EV DCFCs that I’m aware of today are capable of 500A, so 50% higher cable ampacity would be required. Not outrageously larger.

Yep. This is today's technology. All they have to do is increase energy density so a 1,000 kWh battery will fit in the MME. How awesome would that be?

 

[Mach1E]

I agree. However, 600 miles in 20 minutes is possible with today's technology.

• Electric Tesla over the road semis and four Tesla 750kW charging stations to provide the semis with up to 400 miles of range in 1 hour of charging. PepsiCo and Frito-Lay are now the first company to have a commercial fleet featuring the electric semi.

So let's math this.

The Tesla semi battery capacity is 1,000 kWh. 400 miles is 400/500 = 80% of the total battery capacity, or 800 kWh. They must be doing some favorable rounding because a 750 kWh battery will take one hour to charge at a speed of 750 kW. So maybe the charger is pumping more than 750 kW at the beginning, and tapers down as it gets to 80%, for an average of 750 kW. I wish we had more specifics about how that works.

Anyway, a CR1 will go 600 miles with a 180 kWh battery. If charged with the Tesla Semi charger at the Frito Lay facility theoretically it could fully charge in 14.4 minutes. Theoretically.

From what I have read, the 750 kW Frito Lay charger cable and connector are not hard to handle.

One day it could be commonplace.

Even on paper that still wouldn’t work.

Double the size of our battery and it will hurt range (a lot more weight).

And they are using FOUR chargers at the same time to charge in an hour.

You couldn’t hook up four chargers to the same smaller battery without a kablooey.

 

[Mach1E]

Yes, exactly. I have been saying this for a long time. We need longer range cars, and a lot more L2 options. As long as they are not free. Free charging is horrible, because the freeloading a-holes hog all of them.



Yep. This is today's technology. All they have to do is increase energy density so a 1,000 kWh battery will fit in the MME. How awesome would that be?

All they have to do is increase energy density.

You make it sound so easy, but that’s pretty much the hardest thing to do.

Even the hypothetical make believe versions of solid state batteries only seem to reduce weight by 30% or so.

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