When not to pre-condition

[flapjake314]

I watched the Ford interview as well as read through the big pre-conditioning thread someone posted recently

My question is whether it makes sense to pre-condition if the car is otherwise charging on an L2. I think everyone is assuming the car's state is fully charged (i.e. overnight) and when you wake up you have it pre-conditioned.

However if car is in the process of charging, the battery is both warm from charging and pre-conditioning would only take away power from what would otherwise go to charge anyway so you're not saving anything. Am I right?

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[Mach-Lee]

However if car is in the process of charging, the battery is both warm from charging and pre-conditioning would only take away power from what would otherwise go to charge anyway so you're not saving anything.

What you're asking falls under strategy I and Z in my topic: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-cold-weather-charging-strategies.24548/

The answer is yes, the battery would be somewhat warm from L2 charging. It takes power from the wall to heat the battery at the beginning of the charging cycle, so it will take more power than just charging alone. However the extra electricity is minor (2-3 kWh, only a few cents extra) so most people won't really care unless they are being extreme penny pinchers.

You don't precondition to save money, you do it to increase range, performance, and battery longevity.

Also, preconditioning will warm up the battery more than just charging alone (15ºC vs. 5ºC), so it lasts longer and has a greater effect on range.

A reminder that preconditioning only takes power from the wall, so the battery won't be drained at all if you use it.

 

[MachEMaster]

I only set Pre conditioning for days I commute to work. The other days it is just charging.

 

[flapjake314]

What you're asking falls under strategy I and Z in my topic: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-cold-weather-charging-strategies.24548/

The answer is yes, the battery would be somewhat warm from L2 charging. It takes power from the wall to heat the battery at the beginning of the charging cycle, so it will take more power than just charging alone. However the extra electricity is minor (2-3 kWh, only a few cents extra) so most people won't really care unless they are being extreme penny pinchers.

You don't precondition to save money, you do it to increase range, performance, and battery longevity.

Also, preconditioning will warm up the battery more than just charging alone (15ºC vs. 5ºC), so it lasts longer and has a greater effect on range.

A reminder that preconditioning only takes power from the wall, so the battery won't be drained at all if you use it.

i'm still not sure i fully understand, but maybe i need to open with my goal of maximizing my range and battery levels because i don't always have access to a charger

if i'm already charging at the full output of the L2, pre-conditioning can only borrow power from power that would otherwise go to charging. in other words if precondition requires 2kwh of power, i either spend 2khw heating my battery while i'm on the road or 2kwh from the wall that would otherwise be going into my battery...

is that right? so in that way it doesn't really do much for me to pre-condition

 

[Mach-Lee]

i either spend 2khw heating my battery while i'm on the road

It doesn't heat the battery while you're unplugged.

or 2kwh from the wall that would otherwise be going into my battery...

This is only true if the battery hasn't finished charging to the target % yet. If you are already at your charge target (e.g. 90%) then preconditioning will not drain the battery and you will still leave with 90%.

 

[flapjake314]

This is only true if the battery hasn't finished charging to the target % yet. If you are already at your charge target (e.g. 90%) then preconditioning will not drain the battery and you will still leave with 90%.

got it i think we're aligned then, that's exactly the scenario i'm talking about -- when the battery isn't done charging.

i don't own a charger, i charge at work or at the store etc, the battery is basically never done charging

 

[RedOctobrrr]

However the extra electricity is minor (2-3 kWh, only a few cents extra) so most people won't really care unless they are being extreme penny pinchers.

2-3 kWh means $0.28 to $0.42 each time where I live, if we average that out and say $0.35, then pre-conditioning is $1.75 per week (assuming 5x preconditioning) or about $7.50 per month.

In Hawaii that's $15 per month, and Idaho about $4.50 per month.

Not saying it's significant or insignificant, just pointing out that it's not a few pennies. If you're doing more than 1 pre-conditioning per day Mon-Fri, it goes without saying that the costs go up from there.

 

[KevinS]

I don't have a set departure schedule, but what I'm trying to do this winter is initiate the car to charge to 100% via the FordPass app about 25-30 minutes before I leave. That way the battery gets warmed up and I can just use the remote start to warm up the cabin and front seats.

Some days I don't go anywhere so it doesn't make sense to set up a departure schedule.

No idea if this is a crazy strategy or not.

 

[Woeo]

I don't have a set departure schedule, but what I'm trying to do this winter is initiate the car to charge to 100% via the FordPass app about 25-30 minutes before I leave. That way the battery gets warmed up and I can just use the remote start to warm up the cabin and front seats.

Some days I don't go anywhere so it doesn't make sense to set up a departure schedule.

No idea if this is a crazy strategy or not.

I don't understand the hesitation. Once I know I am going to depart at a certain time I use the phone to set a departure time.

Typically I just use the previous event and re-jigger the day & time. Rarely is it another week before I set a new time, so I am just updating the single event over and over.

My strategy is give the car as much notice as possible, but have faith that even a few moments of pre-conditioning is beneficial.

 

[KevinS]

I don't understand the hesitation. Once I know I am going to depart at a certain time I use the phone to set a departure time.

FordPass is flaky about having the preconditioning settings saved and transferring them to the car on short notice.

At least that's been my experience lately and precisely why I'm trying this other method.

YMMV.

 

[Mini166]

FordPass is flaky about having the preconditioning settings saved and transferring them to the car on short notice.

At least that's been my experience lately and precisely why I'm trying this other method.

YMMV.

I’m in the same boat. I’d love to take advantage of pre-conditioning somehow, but I work from home half of the week and my trips are more sporadic. I also only see charging settings on the hour. No 30 minute increments.
And FordPass (or the charger, or the car) is WAY flaky!! The first night it didn’t charge at all (I have a Bosch Pro Max(??) L2). Last night I re-set it and tried again. I checked my phone at about 3 am and it didn’t show that it was charging. I checked again this am and it apparently my phone had just not caught up or refreshed, because it then showed charging had stopped at 80 % as I had scheduled.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I’m in the same boat. I’d love to take advantage of pre-conditioning somehow, but I work from home half of the week and my trips are more sporadic. I also only see charging settings on the hour. No 30 minute increments.
And FordPass (or the charger, or the car) is WAY flaky!! The first night it didn’t charge at all (I have a Bosch Pro Max(??) L2). Last night I re-set it and tried again. I checked my phone at about 3 am and it didn’t show that it was charging. I checked again this am and it apparently my phone had just not caught up or refreshed, because it then showed charging had stopped at 80 % as I had scheduled.

You are looking at the charging times, the departure times can be set to the nearest 5 minutes. If you don't have a set schedule, I recommend you use battery heating strategy C here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-cold-weather-charging-strategies.24548/

Or pick another strategy listed there, or some combination if you only work on some days.

 

[Mini166]

You are looking at the charging times, the departure times can be set to the nearest 5 minutes. If you don't have a set schedule, I recommend you use battery heating strategy C here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-lees-cold-weather-charging-strategies.24548/

Or pick another strategy listed there, or some combination if you only work on some days.

Ooh excellent thank you.

 

[KrazyEd]

As I read the OP, the " saving energy " isn't about cost but about battery. Not easy to do on the
Mach E, but if you have the ability ( Torque or Car Scanner App ) you can see how much energy
is being consumed by the Climate settings. When first activated it will pull maximum amount.
Probably around 5 KW. At this point, it is taking away from the charging of the battery. After a few
minutes, that rate drops and that energy goes back to charging the battery. I live in Las Vegas so
not as cold in the winter, but summer is much hotter than most other areas. In the winter I set the climate much hotter than I would like while plugged in to the wall. I then turn climate control off once I pull out of the garage. Once moving, I seldom need any additional climate energy. I am aware that this will be different in areas that have REAL winter. Set climate to hot, then use heated seats and lower climate settings. In the summer, It might be one hundred and twenty degrees plus when I exit the garage. Same thing. I set it colder than desired, and set to a more moderate setting once on the road. My drive to work is 11 miles. Doing this in the winter actually raises my remaining range in the when I arrive and is only a mile or so less in the summer when I use the A/C the entire way.Other range helpers are tire pressure and speed. Tire pressure will drop as it gets colder. I
set my tire pressure to whatever the Manufacturer of the tire says as maximum. I get arguments
about harm of OVER inflating. I am not over inflating, I am following what this particular
manufacturer has said is safe. Another argument of higher pressure is wearing out of the center
of the tire prematurely. This may be true if you put maximum pressure on a 2,000 LB. car, but less
of an issue on BEVs which are usually pretty heavy. You will also have a little bumpier ride and
possibly less traction in rain or snow. I have been doing this in 50 years of driving and never had
a pressure related tire issue. A final issue is speed and acceleration. If you start your car from
unplugged and cold, crank your climate as high as it will go and then speed onto the freeway to
a 70 or 80 MPH cruise speed, you are doing the most damage to the range and battery life as
possible. As much as you are able to do safely, gently accelerate to the freeway and onto it.
Start around 55 and gradually make it to a higher speed. Unless you are traveling 50 plus miles to
your destination there will be little difference in your travel time.
Sorry to ramble

 

[Flat6]

Has anyone figured out at what sense theres a net benefit NOT to pre-charge? If I'm just doing a really short trip (5min), I'm guessing that theres more energy usage in total from pre-conditioning since I'm not going to reap much benefit from the conditioned battery during such a quick journey.

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