Where's my range Ford?

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,509
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2025 Rivian R1T Tri-Max, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
I understand, less worried about a few kilowatt hours I'm more worried about not getting closer to the 247 mile number I'm pretty far off in the 180s and 190s. 247 would be around 3.3 miles per kwh and I seem to only be able to get 2.7 on average. I think I drive average I don't think I push it hard. Next few days I'll go out of my way to drive like a grandma and see if I can get closer.
McFly, if you want to get the EPA range, then you need to drive the EPA range test cycle, which is NOT 70 mph continuous. Read this article and get some learn'n:

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
Sponsored

 
OP
OP

Crazypostman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
92
Reaction score
41
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
McFly, if you want to get the EPA range, then you need to drive the EPA range test cycle, which is NOT 70 mph continuous. Read this article and get some learn'n:

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
That was probably supposed to be an insult but I like that... McFly! ? The70 mph range test I did was just one day. I've had the car for three other weeks. Usually just City driving 6 days a week and highway one day a week but I'm still not able to obtain that 3.3
 

SnBGC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Threads
46
Messages
5,962
Reaction score
9,778
Location
Phoenix
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E FE, 2021 Wrangler 4xe High Altitude
Occupation
Manager
Country flag
It's the car scanner app on Android. It shows so much stuff basically anything you could imagine you would need to look up. If you give me a specific value to look for I'll try to see if I can find it.
Yes. But understand the real values are not always what you see displayed. The scanner converts the values. For example, the TPS value might be 2.5v but the scanner will convert that to 55%. The conversion table may not be correct. That scan tool isn't known for accuracy. On my truck, it will show a coolant temp value even though there is no actual sensor. If I unplug the ICP sensor then it will substitute a lookup value provided by the PCM even though that sensor is offline.

So, take some of the readings with a grain of salt because you don't really know how those values are obtained unless you can see the native PID data.
 
OP
OP

Crazypostman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
92
Reaction score
41
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
Yes. But understand the real values are not always what you see displayed. The scanner converts the values. For example, the TPS value might be 2.5v but the scanner will convert that to 55%. The conversion table may not be correct. That scan tool isn't known for accuracy. On my truck, it will show a coolant temp value even though there is no actual sensor. If I unplug the ICP sensor then it will substitute a lookup value provided by the PCM even though that sensor is offline.

So, take some of the readings with a grain of salt because you don't really know how those values are obtained unless you can see the native PID data.
Okay that's something to think about, I didn't know the OBD scanner was making up its own values. I thought it was getting numbers straight from the car.
 

voxel

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nelson
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Threads
27
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
1,858
Location
Altamonte Springs, FL
Vehicles
22 Mach-E 4X, 23 GC Limited
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Overall efficiency 2.7 I recorded that test on my YouTube channel if anybody wanted to check the accuracy.
2.7 mi/kWh seems very low at 70mph IMO.

I recall getting 3.0-3.3 mi/kWh at highway speeds in Florida. And I had the SR also.

Are you underinflating your tires? Do you have stock OEM tires?
 


The Black Horse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
238
Reaction score
335
Location
New York
Vehicles
Select Mach E+Comfort and Tech, 2015 Mini Cooper
Country flag
You guys would argue with a rock if it talked back to you. Let this man and his wild Easter egg hunt for his "missing miles" be.

Good luck to you OP, I wish you well on your journey to find those dastardly hidden miles.
 

devmach-e

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
2,028
Reaction score
2,480
Location
SF Bay Area
Vehicles
2022 Premium RWD ER, 2016 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Occupation
Unix Sysadmin
Country flag
I understand, less worried about a few kilowatt hours I'm more worried about not getting closer to the 247 mile number I'm pretty far off in the 180s and 190s. 247 would be around 3.3 miles per kwh and I seem to only be able to get 2.7 on average. I think I drive average I don't think I push it hard. Next few days I'll go out of my way to drive like a grandma and see if I can get closer.
The 247 miles of range is not a guarantee that you will get that range. It is merely the range that resulted from the EPA mandated test(s). The same exact test(s) that every car sold in the US must do, regardless of powertrain (diesel, gasoline, hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas, electric). On the window sticker it explicitly states:

Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle.

That disclaimer is on every window sticker, again, regardless of powertrain. The point of these EPA test numbers is not to provide you with a specific range or MPG that you get. It is to allow you to compare multiple cars to each other to determine which one might be the more efficient, and thus cheapest, vehicle to operate.

If you aren't getting the EPA range numbers it may mean that you aren't driving efficiently (speeding, lots of jackrabbit starts, etc). Or that the outside temperature is very hot/cold and battery power is being used to keep you comfortable, and thus not able to provide as much power for range. Or that the car's battery thermal management system is kicking in to and is conditioning the battery to keep it in a safe operating temperature zone, which takes power from the battery, and thus not as much power for range. The car even tells you every trip how much power went to propulsion, HVAC, battery conditioning, and accessories.
 
OP
OP

Crazypostman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
92
Reaction score
41
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
2.7 mi/kWh seems very low at 70mph IMO.

I recall getting 3.0-3.3 mi/kWh at highway speeds in Florida. And I had the SR also.

Are you underinflating your tires? Do you have stock OEM tires?
Yeah 3.3 would be The Sweet spot to get that 247 I wished I could get that but my efficiency just is low for some reason. Tires are at 40 I haven't checked to see if that's right or not but that's how they came. Their stock. It's flat out here not a lot of hills plus I did that test on a loop so the elevation wouldn't matter anyway. I didn't use any HVAC until probably the last 15 mi of the test I got hot. 2.7 was all she would do.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,509
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2025 Rivian R1T Tri-Max, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
That was probably supposed to be an insult but I like that... McFly! ? The70 mph range test I did was just one day. I've had the car for three other weeks. Usually just City driving 6 days a week and highway one day a week but I'm still not able to obtain that 3.3
Glad the light hearted insult was well received. Anyway, I have frequently exceeded 3.3 driving around town in my GT so I don't know what you are doing that could keep you from that number. Are you using 1PD? As Nelson asked, are your tires at 40 psi? I doubt you will maintain 3.3 at 70 mph but around town it should be easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
 

devmach-e

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
2,028
Reaction score
2,480
Location
SF Bay Area
Vehicles
2022 Premium RWD ER, 2016 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Occupation
Unix Sysadmin
Country flag
I've never had access to anything above 69.5kWh according to the scan tool. I'll keep watching and see if that changes.
The scan tool probably can't give you the level of accuracy you want. 69.5 kWh is pretty close to 70 kWh. A less than 1% variance which can be explained by the lack of granularity we get. And that 70 kWh number? It's based on a certain voltage at a certain temperature at a certain amount of load. Like all batteries are. Getting it down to the one-thousand decimal place ain't gonna happen.
 
OP
OP

Crazypostman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
92
Reaction score
41
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
The 247 miles of range is not a guarantee that you will get that range. It is merely the range that resulted from the EPA mandated test(s). The same exact test(s) that every car sold in the US must do, regardless of powertrain (diesel, gasoline, hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas, electric). On the window sticker it explicitly states:

Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle.

That disclaimer is on every window sticker, again, regardless of powertrain. The point of these EPA test numbers is not to provide you with a specific range or MPG that you get. It is to allow you to compare multiple cars to each other to determine which one might be the more efficient, and thus cheapest, vehicle to operate.

If you aren't getting the EPA range numbers it may mean that you aren't driving efficiently (speeding, lots of jackrabbit starts, etc). Or that the outside temperature is very hot/cold and battery power is being used to keep you comfortable, and thus not able to provide as much power for range. Or that the car's battery thermal management system is kicking in to and is conditioning the battery to keep it in a safe operating temperature zone, which takes power from the battery, and thus not as much power for range. The car even tells you every trip how much power went to propulsion, HVAC, battery conditioning, and accessories.
I understand that and most of my complaints have been figured out in this post. Those 3.3 kilowatt hours that I thought I was missing are not missing they are just below zero percent. In my opinion that's not usable range but whatever. Here's a screenshot from my range test where I went 100% to 0% and got 188 MI it was 69° and it shows that none of my power went to AC I'm just not getting very good efficiency out of the car.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Where's my range Ford? Screenshot_20220328-221348_YouTu
 

SnBGC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Threads
46
Messages
5,962
Reaction score
9,778
Location
Phoenix
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E FE, 2021 Wrangler 4xe High Altitude
Occupation
Manager
Country flag
Okay that's something to think about, I didn't know the OBD scanner was making up its own values. I thought it was getting numbers straight from the car.
It is, but it has to convert the values correctly. That formula for energy might not account for the change in usable energy of your model.

Forscan is pretty good.
The professional scanners like Mac, Bosch etc can be flipped to show the actual sensor values. It is a good way to know what is real and what is calculated.
 
OP
OP

Crazypostman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
92
Reaction score
41
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
The scan tool probably can't give you the level of accuracy you want. 69.5 kWh is pretty close to 70 kWh. A less than 1% variance which can be explained by the lack of granularity we get. And that 70 kWh number? It's based on a certain voltage at a certain temperature at a certain amount of load. Like all batteries are. Getting it down to the one-thousand decimal place ain't gonna happen.
I guess the main argument I had isn't really valid because it does look like 70 is available but 3.3 of that is below 0% and that threw me off because I didn't think to drive the car past 0%
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,509
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2025 Rivian R1T Tri-Max, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
I understand that and most of my complaints have been figured out in this post. Those 3.3 kilowatt hours that I thought I was missing are not missing they are just below zero percent. In my opinion that's not usable range but whatever. Here's a screenshot from my range test where I went 100% to 0% and got 188 MI it was 69° and it shows that none of my power went to AC I'm just not getting very good efficiency out of the car.
Screenshot_20220328-221348_YouTube.jpg
Why is your speed rating 40%? That is a big clue to your problem. My speed ratings have been much, much higher than that and I speed. So you are doing something unusual to get 40%.
Sponsored

 
 







Top