Would a NACS retrofit allow V2H?

[bshaw]

i don't think it is an actual chip - teslatap's website mentions a "bypass circuit". teslataps require a 30s wait after plugging into the Tesla Wall/Destination charger before plugging into the car (as does my lectron). my guess is the adapter causes the EVSE to start its PWM signaling when it is connected and the 30s wait is to make the tesla EVSE timeout and then it will restart when it is connected to the car.

tesla EVSEs use the same PWM signaling used on J1772 spec ports so it should generally* work once they sync up. i'm pretty sure these are very simple circuits without any chip communicating on the pilot pins.

* it appears gen3 tesla EVSEs have added an access control mechanism via a firmware upgrade that will require a digital communication between EVSE and car when in one of the restricted modes. this is probably a proprietary method using CAN or PLC communications since it needs to detect "authentic" teslas or, in "Authorized Teslas Only" mode, pass the VIN. both restricted modes may pass the VIN - i haven't found any details there. if you run into one of these gen3 units in this mode it most likely won't work.

Thanks for the post, it helps to know a little bit about how these adapters work if troubleshooting is ever required.

I wonder if the gen3 "authentic" Teslas mode will be deprecated now that the SC network is being opened up?
Seems like a nice security feature to restrict a home EVSE to a certain list of VINs, if the EVSE will be accessible from outdoors. However public destination chargers being set to "Tesla Only" seems quite unnecessary at this point.

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[generaltso]

I wonder if the gen3 "authentic" Teslas mode will be deprecated now that the SC network is being opened up?
Seems like a nice security feature to restrict a home EVSE to a certain list of VINs, if the EVSE will be accessible from outdoors. However public destination chargers being set to "Tesla Only" seems quite unnecessary at this point.

Tesla doesn’t operate the destination chargers, so that would be up to the owners. That being said, the default setting is to allow all cars, and there’s no incentive for the owner of a destination charger to change that setting.

 

[kodiakng]

Thanks for the post, it helps to know a little bit about how these adapters work if troubleshooting is ever required.

I wonder if the gen3 "authentic" Teslas mode will be deprecated now that the SC network is being opened up?
Seems like a nice security feature to restrict a home EVSE to a certain list of VINs, if the EVSE will be accessible from outdoors. However public destination chargers being set to "Tesla Only" seems quite unnecessary at this point.

for owners who install their EVSE outside (multi-unit dwelling, etc) i can definitely see someone wanting to control access. tesla's Wall Connector is used for both personal and destination charging applications so having the flexibility in the firmware makes sense. this is all independent of the Supercharger network.

Tesla doesn’t operate the destination chargers, so that would be up to the owners. That being said, the default setting is to allow all cars, and there’s no incentive for the owner of a destination charger to change that setting.

actually, tesla does operate some - i have no idea what percentage though. they invite commercial charging hosts and offer pay-for-use services as an add-on.

again, since the same device is used for personal and destination chargers it makes sense to have the option to restrict access for a subset of situations.

 

[Jimrpa]

If so, I’m in.

I would normally complain about ditching the CCS connector, but I have seen those of small frame struggle with them at public chargers (EVSEs).

I’m thinking the best solution is CCS on one side and NACS on the other. And if one of the charge port doors is open, the other is locked!

The last thing you want to ask Ford to do is to make the stupid charge port door MORE complex. They need to steal the fuel filler flap from the escape and call it a day.

 

[Hammered]

If so, I’m in.

I would normally complain about ditching the CCS connector, but I have seen those of small frame struggle with them at public chargers (EVSEs).

I’m thinking the best solution is CCS on one side and NACS on the other. And if one of the charge port doors is open, the other is locked!

No. All EVs with DCFC capability can perform V2x via turning on the HVDC contactors to feed HV out to an inverter designed to eat it. Solar charge controllers that can accept 500v strings of panels are a perfect product to use for this capability.

Where the problem resides is that companies don't want to allow this feature as it uses the battery while not putting any miles on the car. Cars have mile-derived warranties (as well as time, but that's moot here). As such, someone may do their traditional 12k miles a year, but also another 12-20k miles worth of home battery duty. I mean as an EV owner if you could simply put up some panels and suddenly use the car for energy storage, such a scenario would be huge. Better yet where I live all power from 11p-7a is 3.5 cents / kWh out the door (actual rate is 1.5 cents + fees). In such a case I could simply charge the vehicle during that cheap period and then power the home while the vehicle is present. No mileage but certainly a heft battery usage. That leaves the warranty. Since the warranty can't be changed on a whim, no manufacturer is going to just arbitrarily allow owners additional usage of a component they'll be on the hook for replacing.

The lighting already has such capability -- and to be honest, there's absolutely nothing special about the lightning that makes it possible. If a home that had the inverter installed were to plug in a MME, and someone was able to over-ride the HVBJB and get the DCFC contactors to turn on, it'd work. Ford won't allow that and it's just a few lines of code. And to be clear, V2x loads are really easy on the car. Even if it were to provide 20kW feed to the home, which is REALLY high usage rate, it's still putting less strain on the vehicle than even sitting on the highway doing 60mph. Acceleration and braking are the highest use cases of the battery where loads can go in excess of 400kW worth of power. All cars can do this using an offboard inverter with DCFC ports. For lightnings, the cost of the inverter and possibly even a slightly higher price builds into the capability the warranty aspects. In-fact that $4k price for the inverter that's something you can get for ~$1200 elsewhere with substantially more features is a prime example.

 

[Mach-Lee]

TeslaTaps have a chip inside them. You plug them into the Tesla Destination charger, wait 30 seconds, then plug into the car's J-1772. The internal electronics have to energize, start up, and then are ready to conduct the handshake with your vehicle.

You give them far too much credit, it's just a resistor that pulls the 12V pilot down to 9V and simulates a vehicle being connected. It's not even necessary on the Mach-E, the Lectron adapter without the resistor (or any internal circuitry) works just fine.

The Tesla wall connectors go into J1772 fallback mode after about 20-30 seconds of no communication with Tesla SW-CAN protocol.

i don't think it is an actual chip - teslatap's website mentions a "bypass circuit". teslataps require a 30s wait after plugging into the Tesla Wall/Destination charger before plugging into the car (as does my lectron). my guess is the adapter causes the EVSE to start its PWM signaling when it is connected and the 30s wait is to make the tesla EVSE timeout and then it will restart when it is connected to the car.

tesla EVSEs use the same PWM signaling used on J1772 spec ports so it should generally* work once they sync up. i'm pretty sure these are very simple circuits without any chip communicating on the pilot pins.

* it appears gen3 tesla EVSEs have added an access control mechanism via a firmware upgrade that will require a digital communication between EVSE and car when in one of the restricted modes. this is probably a proprietary method using CAN or PLC communications since it needs to detect "authentic" teslas or, in "Authorized Teslas Only" mode, pass the VIN. both restricted modes may pass the VIN - i haven't found any details there. if you run into one of these gen3 units in this mode it most likely won't work.

Correct, there is no way around Gen3 wall connectors with access control enabled unless you hack them. TeslaTap will not work.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

V2H for the Tesla connector exists only on paper as far as I know.

There’s a bit of disincentive for Tesla when it comes to V2H. There’s the small matter of the PowerWall product.

I've never understood why people would buy a Lectron when the one from Tesla is basically the same price.

Some folks don’t want to support the Oracle of Pretoria in any manner whatsoever, no matter how minuscule that support may be.

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