V2X with our Mustang Mach-E!

Last weekend we visited a homeowner in San Diego that has a new system from Sigenergy that enables the Mach-E to do V2X! We were able to plug our unmodified Mach-E into the charger and watch it pull energy from the car into the integrated system that ties in rooftop solar, the DC charger, the grid, and a small battery.

We've been told that the Mach-E is incapable of doing V2X but we saw it happen. There are lots of questions about support from Ford and if other EVs work. The customer/owner that we visited uses his Mach-E all the time with the system. He also has a Rivian that works with the system but not as flawlessly as the Mach-E.

Pretty cool setup!

For all of the details and an interview with the CEO of Sigenergy North America:

Great video! Thank you for the technical deep dive, and how they're achieving this feat. I'm super excited to see DC-DC charging from solar; I hate how much losses are involved with L2 AC charging from solar.

This is great news and I'm interested in this setup.

There was an Electrek article about this company's V2X that I posted last month. The article was unclear which Ford models worked with V2X. It's well known that F150 Lightning has V2X but the MME doesn't. I went to the Sigenergy site and it only mentioned the F-150 Lightning.

I am excited to see this works with our MME but still have concerns that Ford could shut this down for the MME with an OTA.

Is there data on how much charging comes through when the sun is down and home battery is depleted?

Looks pretty interesting. Also looks like they're not really doing much in the U.S. at the moment (4 distributors, and no installers). Looking at some posts from Australia about the price and converting to USD, it looks like the SigenStor system would start at around $18K USD (installed) and go up from there, depending on capacity and features (but that's all assumption, and doens't take into account things like tariffs...) That's a chunk of change, but definitely something to keep an eye on!

I did the poor man's version by mounting a 12v inverter on the wall in my garage, and adding a port into the 12v system in my frunk. But it's limited by the MME's onboard inverter's capacity, so while it can power my fridge and freezer, and maybe my heated blanket during a power outage, it's not a slick solution, and requires running some extension cords around the house.

I find it interesting that they figured out a way to tell non-V2X vehicles to discharge through the charge port! I wouldn't have thought that was possible!

Mark813 said:

This is great news and I'm interested in this setup.

There was an Electrek article about this company's V2X that I posted last month. The article was unclear which Ford models worked with V2X. It's well known that F150 Lightning has V2X but the MME doesn't. I went to the Sigenergy site and it only mentioned the F-150 Lightning.

I am excited to see this works with our MME but still have concerns that Ford could shut this down for the MME with an OTA.

Is there data on how much charging comes through when the sun is down and home battery is depleted?

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I just messaged Adam and he says in theory it can charge at 11.4 kW minus the house needs. He says he has seen it charge at 11.0/11.1 kW.

Mach-E VLOG said:

I just messaged Adam and he says in theory it can charge at 11.4 kW minus the house needs. He says he has seen it charge at 11.0/11.1 kW.

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Fantastic, so similar to a traditional 240V L2 home charging setup but could go as high as 20-25kw when solar and battery combine with grid.

Thanks!

ReverendPete said:

at some posts from Australia about the price and converting to USD, it looks like the SigenStor system would start at around $18K USD (installed) and go up from there, depending on capacity and features (but that's all assumption, and doens't take into account things like tariffs...) That's a chunk of change, but definitely something to keep an eye on!

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I'd be interested to see a comparison of the Tesla powerwalls and maybe LG whoever else makes some home batteries to this home battery cost

Also to compare this company's V2H cost with the cost of the bidirectional Ford charger install for the Lightning or a bidirectional competitor that works with the Lightning or other V2H capable vehicles. I've seen a few videos and that part seems to be a chunk of change on its own.

You'd probably have to put this all together with the right solar install at the same time and roll it into a second mortgage.

It’s an exciting technology but there is the caveat that since Ford has stated the MME cannot do V2x there is the possibility of a powertrain-related software closing the loophole that can be used to export power. As it stands for me right now, we haven’t had enough significantly long power outages to justify the purchase of an ICE generator. We have much less justification to outlay for a battery system and less still for this kind of expense.

I still think it’s cool as heck and want something like it. I just cannot justify purchasing it. I will be following the ISO standards development and implementation just because. Poodles just need to know.

HuntingPudel said:

It’s an exciting technology but there is the caveat that since Ford has stated the MME cannot do V2x there is the possibility of a powertrain-related software closing the loophole that can be used to export power. As it stands for me right now, we haven’t had enough significantly long power outages to justify the purchase of an ICE generator. We haven’t much less justification to outlay for a battery system and less still for this kind of expense.

I still think it’s cool as heck and want something like it. I just cannot justify purchasing it. I will be following the ISO standards development and implementation just because. Poodles just need to know.

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I think there's a challenge for Ford - we don't have the time of use electric rates in Florida but out in California you could be using your vehicle battery to arbitrage the time of day costs

And I would say Ford's challenge is they are rating battery warranties for miles on the road not for total discharges if you were using it daily.

Although I'm curious if you ran your F-150 Lightning this way in California would it somehow invalidate the warranty even though it's designed to do it with Ford's bidirectional charger.

I have to assume they'd be able to see from your black box that you were pushing electric back into the grid every day versus you did vehicle to home a couple days post hurricane.

I'd like Ford to have a caveat if you were using it during an actual power outage you would be warranty covered. But I'm sure if they push the OTA the software wouldn't have that differentiation.

Our rooftop solar is 10 years ago and that's the typical life for the inverter. Ours still works but since we're planning other renovations too we're looking to replace the inverter with a flexible one and add a battery and an integrated EVSE. So your video was really awesome to see, Patrick.

Sadly this however is far less awesome:

I get it that it's a chicken and egg sort of thing, but they're going to need to vastly improve their US installer network... I sure hope they can expand their installer network soon.

Mach-E VLOG said:

Last weekend we visited a homeowner in San Diego that has a new system from Sigenergy that enables the Mach-E to do V2X! We were able to plug our unmodified Mach-E into the charger and watch it pull energy from the car into the integrated system that ties in rooftop solar, the DC charger, the grid, and a small battery.

We've been told that the Mach-E is incapable of doing V2X but we saw it happen. There are lots of questions about support from Ford and if other EVs work. The customer/owner that we visited uses his Mach-E all the time with the system. He also has a Rivian that works with the system but not as flawlessly as the Mach-E.

Pretty cool setup!

For all of the details and an interview with the CEO of Sigenergy North America:

Click to expand...

Patrick and liv, thanks so much for posting this. I actually watched it on YouTube before coming across this thread. I’ll never be allowed to have solar panels at my house (and they would not be practical anyways - small roof, lots of trees, poor orientation).

The solution I’d like to find is one where, during the “expensive” period, the system would prioritize pulling electricity from my car before pulling it from the grid. It sounds like the solution you showed, can’t do that (the website seems to say that the V2X functionality is only available if you have solar as well as a battery. Ideally, I want a solution that doesn’t require solar or battery (although, I’d tolerate a small “buffer battery” if I had to).
The other thing that would keep me away is that it sounds like the standards haven’t been finalized yet, and Ford would always be just one OTA away from rendering any investment in such a system obsolete.

Jimrpa said:

Patrick and liv, thanks so much for posting this. I actually watched it on YouTube before coming across this thread. I’ll never be allowed to have solar panels at my house (and they would not be practical anyways - small roof, lots of trees, poor orientation).

The solution I’d like to find is one where, during the “expensive” period, the system would prioritize pulling electricity from my car before pulling it from the grid. It sounds like the solution you showed, can’t do that (the website seems to say that the V2X functionality is only available if you have solar as well as a battery. Ideally, I want a solution that doesn’t require solar or battery (although, I’d tolerate a small “buffer battery” if I had to).
The other thing that would keep me away is that it sounds like the standards haven’t been finalized yet, and Ford would always be just one OTA away from rendering any investment in such a system obsolete.

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That's not what I heard in the video. at just about 20 minutes he talks about both powering your home from the car battery or using it for time-of-day kinds of operations. And as he said in parts of the video, the point is to route the energy from any source to any place it is needed. You could in fact get the system with just the controller/inverter and the DC charging unit.

I will also state though when that concept came up, I did a bit of back of the envelop math and for "battery only" (not the car battery) and it just didn't make any sense if that was all you wanted it for (at least in our case). As in power outages or solar. I'm in a townhouse in Northern California, so solar is out, and almost never have power outages. Right now, the difference is .60 peak, .50 partial peak and .30 off peak. Off peak is from midnight to 3PM. And given that we only really have two "big power draws", air conditioning and charging the Mach-E, and the Mach-E is already "time shifted", the same goes for the washing and drying of clothes. So, it would only really benefit us for shift the air conditioning a few hours a day on the days that we used it, which wouldn't even apply most of the year. And these things cost thousands.

I have seen videos that suggest that this use case is viable, but the person was in the UK and he was talking about the difference between something like .80 and .07.

It would shave almost 20% off my electric bill (our peak period is 2:00 PM to 6:00 PM weekdays).
I didn’t interpret the video the way you did, and the website certainly seems to imply that you only get V2X if you configure the system with batteries and solar. Anyway, it’s a moot point for me. I wouldn’t consider it until standards stabilize.

I do like DC solar outputting DC to the car with their setup, it sounds like less transmission loss during charging.

If I had this system, I would be hard-pressed not to use the v2x in a power outage. But the current version they're using does sound like a workaround and not quite a perfect design despite the ISOs quoted.

I'm thinking the rivian mentioned in the video shuts off after 5 minutes because the internal computer of the rivian is saying why are we draining DC and has a fail safe to pause.

That sounds like a "fix" Ford would eventually push OTA to our vehicles.

I do remember reading an article in the last year that they (battery scientists at a university) were purposely draining batteries back to zero as a way to reset the internal alignments or some scientific term and by draining it to zero periodically would give longer battery life.

Mark813 said:

I do like DC solar outputting DC to the car with their setup, it sounds like less transmission loss during charging.

If I had this system, I would be hard-pressed not to use the v2x in a power outage. But the current version they're using does sound like a workaround and not quite a perfect design despite the ISOs quoted.

I'm thinking the rivian mentioned in the video shuts off after 5 minutes because the internal computer of the rivian is saying why are we draining DC and has a fail safe to pause.

That sounds like a "fix" Ford would eventually push OTA to our vehicles.

I do remember reading an article in the last year that they (battery scientists at a university) were purposely draining batteries back to zero as a way to reset the internal alignments or some scientific term and by draining it to zero periodically would give longer battery life.

Click to expand...

This might be the article you read...

https://insideevs.com/news/764150/ev-battery-flooring-it-good/