Mach-E vs. Audi e-tron: who charges faster? Real world test

[mr_raider]

Angry? He wasn't angry. He actually sounded really impressed and had nothing but good things to say about the Mach-E in the video, considring it was 67k vs 100+ for the E-tron

But yeah the interruptions are annoying. If you are off getting your coffee somewhere andyou don't know your session is interrupted that's a PITA. That's more of problem than getting a lower sustained charge rate.

But damn I want that EX3 now!

BTW the change in stalls was because of the shared stall initially. He clearly says that the two cars were probably sharing the max charge rate so they were both showing 74kwh. He drove 15km further to a place where they could be charged separately.

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[timbop]

Well, I can help you. As you mentioned Ionity is very often presented as THE NO. 1 CHARGING SOLUTION COMPANY in Europe.

B U T... Ionity increased their prices dramatically. Charging with Ionity means to pay 79 Euro cent per kWh in Germany. An this guy had a open fight with the CEO of Ionity. Ionity is an assembly of many auto builder. Ford is one of them.

Another reason he was angry was, that the loading process was interrupted several times by the mustang itself. There is another German video, where two reports drove from castle Neuschwanstein in South Germany to Flensburg North Germany. They stopped at each charging station what was on their trip. Nearly 30% of the stops were interrupted. FORD will have a big task to do while solving these problems. It's one story to develop, to create and to build such a car. But charging is a rather new mission isn't it? ?

(sorry for my English. I'll do my very best while giving you informations. I promise you. Greetings from Germany)

Great information to have, and your english is much better than my german!

Yes, I think Ford still has a lot to learn in the electric car market. I know they did a lot of cold weather testing, but obviously none of that testing included fast charging in cold weather. If Ford does it right, then the cars will significantly improve in the next year, so I'm not that worried.

It is expected that the first version of any new product as complicated as an electric car will have room for improvement. I'm just a little surprised that they didn't learn more from Tesla or their testing, but I suppose they didn't run a Tesla through the tests at the same time to realize how much room for improvement that they had.

 

[NoPlanetB]

Two other points from the video that haven't been mentioned:
- The e-tron took noticeably longer to start the charging session. He found that annoying (but maybe just because it spoiled his attempt at synchronicity).
- He says "the entire telematics and infotainment system is really superb in the Mach-e, and really much cooler than in the e-tron."

And no, I didn't find him angry either. Just extrovert and energetic. He was even relatively chilled about the extra cost at Ionity. Just when the interruptions happened he got a little stressed, but again probably mostly due to the spoiled synchronicity.

 

[BlueMach]

Two other points from the video that haven't been mentioned:
- The e-tron took noticeably longer to start the charging session. He found that annoying (but maybe just because it spoiled his attempt at synchronicity).
- He says "the entire telematics and infotainment system is really superb in the Mach-e, and really much cooler than in the e-tron."

And no, I didn't find him angry either. Just extrovert and energetic. He was even relatively chilled about the extra cost at Ionity. Just when the interruptions happened he got a little stressed, but again probably mostly due to the spoiled synchronicity.

He's one that I subscribe to despite not speaking German - love his reviews!

Definitely wish the Mach-E had brought the same polish to the charging experience as it clearly did to the hardware. Preconditioning would go a long way, apparently that's coming via OTA but it begs the question of why it wasn't thought of to begin with. I wonder if the Ford team should have bought an E-Tron and had an engineer drag it along when they tested Mach-E prototypes so they could have seen the disparity before the media found it.

 

[generaltso]

Preconditioning would go a long way, apparently that's coming via OTA

There have been a lot of unofficial comments from insiders implying the first OTA update will involve charging in some way. I’m hoping that preconditioning and the ability to display and change the charging speed are included in that. There have also been comments that the GOM will be improved to be less pessimistic so that people will stop freaking out about the estimated range.

 

[silverelan]

Two other points from the video that haven't been mentioned:
- The e-tron took noticeably longer to start the charging session. He found that annoying (but maybe just because it spoiled his attempt at synchronicity).
- He says "the entire telematics and infotainment system is really superb in the Mach-e, and really much cooler than in the e-tron."

And no, I didn't find him angry either. Just extrovert and energetic. He was even relatively chilled about the extra cost at Ionity. Just when the interruptions happened he got a little stressed, but again probably mostly due to the spoiled synchronicity.

He seemed impressed with the charging speed of the Mach-E with it beating Ford's estimated 45 minutes to 10% to 80%.

If there was some frustration, it was at the e-tron. He was getting pretty worked up about the charging difficulties he was having with it.

 

[mr_raider]

Great information to have, and your english is much better than my german!

Yes, I think Ford still has a lot to learn in the electric car market. I know they did a lot of cold weather testing, but obviously none of that testing included fast charging in cold weather. If Ford does it right, then the cars will significantly improve in the next year, so I'm not that worried.

It is expected that the first version of any new product as complicated as an electric car will have room for improvement. I'm just a little surprised that they didn't learn more from Tesla or their testing, but I suppose they didn't run a Tesla through the tests at the same time to realize how much room for improvement that they had.

Cold weather was not an issue. He states both cars came off the highway and batteries were warm. And it was raining so probably above freezing.

This looks like a software glitch.

 

[Shayne]

Well, I can help you. As you mentioned Ionity is very often presented as THE NO. 1 CHARGING SOLUTION COMPANY in Europe.

B U T... Ionity increased their prices dramatically. Charging with Ionity means to pay 79 Euro cent per kWh in Germany. An this guy had a open fight with the CEO of Ionity. Ionity is an assembly of many auto builder. Ford is one of them.

Another reason he was angry was, that the loading process was interrupted several times by the mustang itself. There is another German video, where two reports drove from castle Neuschwanstein in South Germany to Flensburg North Germany. They stopped at each charging station what was on their trip. Nearly 30% of the stops were interrupted. FORD will have a big task to do while solving these problems. It's one story to develop, to create and to build such a car. But charging is a rather new mission isn't it? ?

(sorry for my English. I'll do my very best while giving you informations. I promise you. Greetings from Germany)

Thank you friend for the info but what is with the wallpaper on the vehicles? Inquiring minds would like to know . Ford is selling 88 KWh usable not 80% of that from what I understand. It has OTA updates on this vehicle that I hope will help. It is new tech and will give them a chance to iron out a couple of charging concerns.

Just an awesome product to drive. ? Had it drive itself on the way back in from my 30 minute test drive. 65 mph on a 2 way hyw negotiating curves no problem. The speed limit displayed on the dash monitor. I thought I could feel something wrong in the front end when it was in control and hanging curves tight on the way out until I realized it was a vibration telling me I am too tight to the lines ?. Never really bothered with the OS except to set it to engaged with the bottom two toggle on that screen off. The wife played with the heat. She has an eagle eye for comfort and was impressed. That is all I require in that department a happy wife. Real nice vehicle. If I had to describe my first impressions it is good solid power. Good job Ford.

 

[Jimrpa]

Well, I can help you. As you mentioned Ionity is very often presented as THE NO. 1 CHARGING SOLUTION COMPANY in Europe.

B U T... Ionity increased their prices dramatically. Charging with Ionity means to pay 79 Euro cent per kWh in Germany. An this guy had a open fight with the CEO of Ionity. Ionity is an assembly of many auto builder. Ford is one of them.

Another reason he was angry was, that the loading process was interrupted several times by the mustang itself. There is another German video, where two reports drove from castle Neuschwanstein in South Germany to Flensburg North Germany. They stopped at each charging station what was on their trip. Nearly 30% of the stops were interrupted. FORD will have a big task to do while solving these problems. It's one story to develop, to create and to build such a car. But charging is a rather new mission isn't it? ?

(sorry for my English. I'll do my very best while giving you informations. I promise you. Greetings from Germany)

Thank you so much! Please don't apologize for your English - it is super! 79 Euro cent per KwH (and I assume that's a per minute rate) is insane! is that for DCFC or is that for L2 charging?

Here in Pennsylvania in the US, Electrify America charges $0,16 per minute for 0 - 90 KwH (L2) and $,32 per minute for up to 350 KwH (DCFC). Electrify America's prices vary by state in the US.

Oh, and to reiterate - I don't speak a word of German. Spanish and Portuguese are the only languages I can barely muddle through, so when I said "angry", I was strictly going by tone. My apologies if I misinterpreted the tone (actually, I should know better - anyone who knows Portuguese knows the accents of Brazilian and continental Portuguese are very different!)

 

[NoPlanetB]

This is for DCFC. Ionity is a consortium of Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Ford and Hyundai. The German car makers offer their customers preferred rates of around 30c/kWh; Ford only in the first year . 30c/kWh is comparable to the price of household electricity. 79c/kWh is the rate for all others. That is pretty bad.

Chris of Car Maniac is using EnBW as his preferred supplier/sponsor, so I assume he does not have an Audi card that would give him access to the preferred rates. EnBW have kind-of 'fallen out' with Ionity.

 

[I.Adams]

Thank you so much! Please don't apologize for your English - it is super! 79 Euro cent per KwH (and I assume that's a per minute rate) is insane! is that for DCFC or is that for L2 charging?

Here in Pennsylvania in the US, Electrify America charges $0,16 per minute for 0 - 90 KwH (L2) and $,32 per minute for up to 350 KwH (DCFC). Electrify America's prices vary by state in the US.

Oh, and to reiterate - I don't speak a word of German. Spanish and Portuguese are the only languages I can barely muddle through, so when I said "angry", I was strictly going by tone. My apologies if I misinterpreted the tone (actually, I should know better - anyone who knows Portuguese knows the accents of Brazilian and continental Portuguese are very different!)

Thanks a lot. The 79 Euro cent depends on the kwh DC charging. Let make an example calculation: The MME might can use 25 kWh while driving 100km. This will cost nearly 20 € per 100km. One litre diesel costs in Germany 1,20 €. A modern diesel car needs 6l/100km, so it will cost 7,20 €. This price is unacceptable. And no one of the members of Ionity (VW, Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Hyundai, KIA,...) interrupt this story. And there another joke : Ionity was supported with billions of Euros also by the European Union.

Any questions? ?

 

[Jimrpa]

Thanks a lot. The 79 Euro cent depends on the kwh DC charging. Let make an example calculation: The MME might can use 25 kWh while driving 100km. This will cost nearly 20 € per 100km. One litre diesel costs in Germany 1,20 €. A modern diesel car needs 6l/100km, so it will cost 7,20 €. This price is unacceptable. And no one of the members of Ionity (VW, Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Hyundai, KIA,...) interrupt this story. And there another joke : Ionity was supported with billions of Euros also by the European Union.

Any questions? ?

Thanks for the explanation, but could you check my maths here. I'm still getting used to the math of charging electric vehicles AND I was having to do some conversions between imperial units and SI.

Assumptions:
You are paying €0,79 per minute to charge at an Ionity charing station, and this is for DC fast charging.
You are charing an extended range Mustang Mach E with a battery pack that has 88 KwH of usable capacity.
You charge the battery pack from approximately 0 to about 80% capacity.
It takes about 41 minutes to charge the battery pack from approximately 0 to 80% capacity per Ford's specifications.
The Mustang Mach E has a range of 230 miles on a full battery pack. That equates to about 368 Km.

So, to charge the car, you are paying Ionity €0,79 per minute x 41 minutes = €32,39 for 88KwH x 0.8 = 70.4 KwH of energy or 368 x 0.8 = 294 Km of range.

So, you're paying €32,39 / 294 = €0,11 per Km, or €11 per 100 Km?

The only way I can come up with your number of 25 KwH per 100 Km is if the range of the Mustang Mach E is 356 Km or 221 miles?

 

[generaltso]

You are paying €0,79 per minute to charge at an Ionity charing station, and this is for DC fast charging.

He said it’s €0,79 per kWh, not per minute.

 

[generaltso]

Here in Pennsylvania in the US, Electrify America charges $0,16 per minute for 0 - 90 KwH (L2) and $,32 per minute for up to 350 KwH (DCFC).

You‘re confusing kWh with kW. Those per-minute prices are based on the rate at which the car can accept electricity (kW), not the amount of electricity dispensed (kWh).

 

[Jimrpa]

Thanks a lot. The 79 Euro cent depends on the kwh DC charging. Let make an example calculation: The MME might can use 25 kWh while driving 100km. This will cost nearly 20 € per 100km. One litre diesel costs in Germany 1,20 €. A modern diesel car needs 6l/100km, so it will cost 7,20 €. This price is unacceptable. And no one of the members of Ionity (VW, Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Hyundai, KIA,...) interrupt this story. And there another joke : Ionity was supported with billions of Euros also by the European Union.

Any questions? ?

Let me see if I can try a similar calculation here in the US. Diesel is significantly more expensive than gasoline here, so I'm going to use gasoline. Also, I'll use imperial units (sorry). Gasoline currently costs $2,71 per gallon in Pennsylvania. Per Ford's specifications, the Mustang Mach E Premium AWD will have a range of 270 miles. Most people in the US will use level 2 charging at home (I pay $0,12 per KwH for electricity at home. As I said previously, the guest L2 charging price is $0,16 per minute at Electrify America and $0,32 per minute for DCFC.) To charge to 80% at Electrify America, using DCFC and Ford's 41 minute standard would cost $0,32 x 41 = $13,12 for a range of 270 x 0.8 = 216 miles. That's $0,06 per mile. My Escape (Kuga), gets about 22 miles per gallon. That's $2,71 / gallon / 22 miles per gallon = $0,12 per mile. So, even if I were to exclusively use DCFC here, the Mustang Mach E is half the cost of my Escape.

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