More Mach-E GT 1/4 mile track results

[Mach1E]

The max power of the large motor is around 281hp with torque at 317lbs so this is pretty much similar to other motors in the class so it is not really hi torque low power motor, as can be seen with the GTPE we get the the total combination of the motors 634lbs torque but 480hp it miles away from the potential 562hp combination.

As long as the batteries are not the issue and can supply the juice for full power, then to reach a target of 480hp means dialing the torque of one or both of the motors back significantly and is probably the cause of most of the issues in the all important mid range.

If they kept the hp curve around 400 and flat at high speeds……. It would accelerate just like a model Y performance.

It doesn’t.

If you look at Tesla dynos they have an almost flat hp curve with the tq curve going down as speed increases.

This actually ideal.

If you asked “what’s the best hp curve for 480 hp?”

The answer would be a flat line.

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[JoeDimwit]

Everyone wasn't expecting that. There's no reason to expect these cars to be that much quicker than what we're seeing from those who own them, other than running one at max SOC.

Take the Tesla POS and Taycans out of the conversation, they're different manufacturers.

Take ideas of how quick a 5000 lb AWD vehicle with 480HP/630LB-FT should accelerate and throw them away.

Keep the conversation to the two Fords. The gas Mustang is an icon. The electric Mustang is the upstart. Ford (the company who built the two cars) is not going to allow the electric Mustang to outpace the icon.

How do you keep the gas Mustang out front? You let the electric Mustang it launch like a bat out of hell, then slow it down. So the 0-60 is great and that sells the car, but the midrange and top end are lacking. Isn't that exactly what we're seeing from the GT's.

This IS the icon. That’s why they are calling it a Mustang.

 

[Brazenbuck]

Huh?

We are up to like 70 pages of conversations about people expecting it to be faster than 12.6 in the 1/4 mile.

And 3.5 0-60 outpaces the “icon.” They’ve been pushing that since the beginning.

I seriously doubt Ford has any concern about making the electric cars faster than their gas counterparts. In fact they’re purposefully making them FASTER. First the Mach E and next comes the Lightning.

You could get to 140 pages and the expectation will still be unrealistic.

Do you think:

1. The GT/GTPE is performing as intended
2. The GT/GTPE has some problem(s) affecting its acceleration
3. Something else

 

[Brazenbuck]

This IS the icon. That’s why they are calling it a Mustang.

It's not. They're great cars. I've got one in the garage and another on order. But no, they're not.

 

[buzznwood]

Everyone wasn't expecting that. There's no reason to expect these cars to be that much quicker than what we're seeing from those who own them, other than running one at max SOC.

Take the Tesla POS and Taycans out of the conversation, they're different manufacturers.

Take ideas of how quick a 5000 lb AWD vehicle with 480HP/630LB-FT should accelerate and throw them away.

Keep the conversation to the two Fords. The gas Mustang is an icon. The electric Mustang is the upstart. Ford (the company who built the two cars) is not going to allow the electric Mustang to outpace the icon.

How do you keep the gas Mustang out front? You let the electric Mustang it launch like a bat out of hell, then slow it down. So the 0-60 is great and that sells the car, but the midrange and top end are lacking. Isn't that exactly what we're seeing from the GT's.

It has a slower trap speed in the 1/4 than an i-pace and a polestar 2, both of which also have a faster 50-70mph time, this isn't just about the model Y performance and the taycan however as soon as Ford set the goal of matching the 0-60 time of the model Y performance then it needs to up at least be similar is other performance metrics.

There is going to be a whole host of people going for the GT just based on the preferring the looks, so will be happy with a fast feeling 0-60 and won't care that is fall flat on its face from 50mph, however once ford started banding around performance naming, then there are going to be a whole host of people expecting it to deliver on the performance and from numbers we have so far it is not.

If that means giving the mach-e more power than the mach-1 mustang coupe so it does, then really who cares there may be one or two but nobody is going cross shopping a 5 door hatchback and a 2 door coupe.

If other manufactures have no issue in giving more power to BEV models vs the ICE performance models and still have confidence in selling those ICE performance models then so should Ford.

There have been Fords that have accelerated to 0-60 faster than the mach-e and ones that have higher top speeds, ones that have more power and ones that have more torque so neutering the performance of your BEV model to not step on the toes of your ICE models is of little use when 99% of your potential customers are not looking at your ICE models but are looking at your competitors BEVs

 

[Up and Over]

I don’t think you can dismiss Tesla. The Model Y is the direct competition and when you label the high-end GT a GTPE, then the comparison is going to be the MY Performance. Whether it’s fair or not, it’s what most consumers and the media compare—Mach E vs MY.

Everyone wasn't expecting that. There's no reason to expect these cars to be that much quicker than what we're seeing from those who own them, other than running one at max SOC.

Take the Tesla POS and Taycans out of the conversation, they're different manufacturers.

Take ideas of how quick a 5000 lb AWD vehicle with 480HP/630LB-FT should accelerate and throw them away.

Keep the conversation to the two Fords. The gas Mustang is an icon. The electric Mustang is the upstart. Ford (the company who built the two cars) is not going to allow the electric Mustang to outpace the icon.

How do you keep the gas Mustang out front? You let the electric Mustang it launch like a bat out of hell, then slow it down. So the 0-60 is great and that sells the car, but the midrange and top end are lacking. Isn't that exactly what we're seeing from the GT's.

 

[phil]

Serious question:

The Mach 1 runs 12.5-12.6. Did anyone honestly expect Ford to have the Mach e GT run quicker that the Mach 1?

Because your question is so serious, I have found the answer for you:

The Mach e GT is quicker to 60. That’s to be expected.

Our old friend Brazen Buck expected it!

No need to thank me.

 

[Brazenbuck]

It has a slower trap speed in the 1/4 than an i-pace and a polestar 2, both of which also have a faster 50-70mph time, this isn't just about the model Y performance and the taycan however as soon as Ford set the goal of matching the 0-60 time of the model Y performance then it needs to up at least be similar is other performance metrics.

If that's the case, they already told you they'd be behind. The MME GT has a top speed of 124. The model Y standard is 135 and the performance model is 155.

 

[Brazenbuck]

Because your question is so serious, I have found the answer for you:

Our old friend Brazen Buck expected it!

No need to thank me.

Oh, you don't know what a quarter mile run is. That explains your responses.

You asked if I wanted more scenarios. I said yes. Got any???

 

[buzznwood]

If they kept the hp curve around 400 and flat at high speeds……. It would accelerate just like a model Y performance.

It doesn’t.

If you look at Tesla dynos they have an almost flat hp curve with the tq curve going down as speed increases.

This actually ideal.

If you asked “what’s the best hp curve for 480 hp?”

The answer would be a flat line.

All other dual motors BEVs that use the same motor, typically just let rip with full power to both the real question is what is the issue for Ford not doing so, if it is battery imitations well then Ford really didn't think the GT models through properly during development and there is not much that can be done , if it is just politics or sand bagging on purpose for future models well at least the potential is there for it to be fixed, maybe when we end up with the inevitable professional reviews and youtube comparisons between the model Y performance and the less than stellar results for the GT/GTPE Ford may finally comment on the issue.

Without seeing the curves for the motors (hopefully we get more info when the crate version is shown at sema) with 281 hp the flat torque of 317lbs is going to last well into the into the upper 4000 rpm range, lets assume after that we get a best case slow linear decline, so potentially the motor can maintaining close to that peak power pretty high up into the motors rev range, so to target 480hp really does mean one or both motors being pulled back and potentially the mapping for it is doing a really poor job or we have a very wobbly power curve neither of which is doing any wonders for mid range acceleration.

 

[EELinneman]

Because, the motor is capable of well over 110 mph and it will make whatever torque it needs to get to speed. It is clearly being told by the software to not keep accelerating at max power.

Joe, you are likely right, but comparing Tesla Model Y times and Ford MME times and blaming software still doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[EELinneman]

All other dual motors BEVs that use the same motor, typically just let rip with full power to both the real question is what is the issue for Ford not doing so, if it is battery imitations well then Ford really didn't think the GT models through properly during development and there is not much that can be done , if it is just politics or sand bagging on purpose for future models well at least the potential is there for it to be fixed, maybe when we end up with the inevitable professional reviews and youtube comparisons between the model Y performance and the less than stellar results for the GT/GTPE Ford may finally comment on the issue.

Without seeing the curves for the motors (hopefully we get more info when the crate version is shown at sema) with 281 hp the flat torque of 317lbs is going to last well into the into the upper 4000 rpm range, lets assume after that we get a best case slow linear decline, so potentially the motor can maintaining close to that peak power pretty high up into the motors rev range, so to target 480hp really does mean one or both motors being pulled back and potentially the mapping for it is doing a really poor job or we have a very wobbly power curve neither of which is doing any wonders for mid range acceleration.

One big variable not being considered is the battery management which may be capping power to the motors. Again, very different battery technology used between Ford and Tesla, though a while ago I asked someone who chose a MME over a Tesla and his response was that he through Tesla may not be manufacturing cars in the future, but rather a supplier to the industry.

 

[buzznwood]

If that's the case, they already told you they'd be behind. The MME GT has a top speed of 124. The model Y standard is 135 and the performance model is 155.

Yes while this is disappointing it comparison to expected performance vehicle standards of the day people already knew this going in, besides it is not like the model Y is trapping at 150mph is it, BEVs are generally not know for top speeds due to the limitations of using a single speed and the chosen max motor rpm.

Yet despite these limitations the polestar-2 has a similar top speed to the GTPE and still manages to have a higher trap speed despite having less power and torque

For those of us that don't live life 1/4 mile at a time or launch it away from every traffic light and stop sign a 0-60mph in the 3.5 to 4.0 is ample however the 50-70mph is an important every day usable zone and here the GTPE painfully lags far behind the model Y performance, the mach-e was supposed to have been freed from the compliance car shackles so it would be expected for the performance model to live up to the name in this area.

 

[Mach1E]

All other dual motors BEVs that use the same motor, typically just let rip with full power to both the real question is what is the issue for Ford not doing so, if it is battery imitations well then Ford really didn't think the GT models through properly during development and there is not much that can be done , if it is just politics or sand bagging on purpose for future models well at least the potential is there for it to be fixed, maybe when we end up with the inevitable professional reviews and youtube comparisons between the model Y performance and the less than stellar results for the GT/GTPE Ford may finally comment on the issue.

Without seeing the curves for the motors (hopefully we get more info when the crate version is shown at sema) with 281 hp the flat torque of 317lbs is going to last well into the into the upper 4000 rpm range, lets assume after that we get a best case slow linear decline, so potentially the motor can maintaining close to that peak power pretty high up into the motors rev range, so to target 480hp really does mean one or both motors being pulled back and potentially the mapping for it is doing a really poor job or we have a very wobbly power curve neither of which is doing any wonders for mid range acceleration.

My hope is either something is wrong and they’ll fix it OR they did this on purpose to be conservative at first and will fix it later once they’re sure the car can take it.

I seem to remember Tesla doing both a free and a $$ acceleration boost after the Model 3 came out.

 

[buzznwood]

One big variable not being considered is the battery management which may be capping power to the motors. Again, very different battery technology used between Ford and Tesla, though a while ago I asked someone who chose a MME over a Tesla and his response was that he through Tesla may not be manufacturing cars in the future, but rather a supplier to the industry.

Hence why Ford needs at some point to enter the conversation, you only need to the look at the DCFC curve that maybe the batteries are not the an issue but the managment of them is.

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