EV Connect (beware of charging stations)

[AZBill]

EV Connect has the worst reliability of any charger network I have ever tried to use. They do not serve Arizona, but they are in Cali. I took a trip in my Bolt to LA a few years ago and tried 9 times to charge with EV Connect, and only charged successfully 2 times. That included DFDC and L2 stations.

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[RickMachE]

Every charging network, and many charging locations, can have unique rules / fees. One shouldn't use any of them without understanding those rules and fees.

Then there's good etiquette. When you charge, it's good etiquette to keep in mind that others may need to charge also. So, if you're going to be full, or to the level you wish to get to, before you return to your vehicle, then you should think about how you would enable the next person to use that charger. Many locations will have one charger for 2 parking spaces, allowing a person to unplug a finished car and plug themselves in. Or they'll have a really long cord. Or, they'll have written rules or fees that discourage people from "abusing" the charger. I put "abusing" in quotes intentionally - is it abuse to fully charge your vehicle, or should you stop at 80% (or some other %) so that others can use the charger? Depends. I plug in hotels, knowing that I won't be full until morning. First come, first served. If I'm at 100% before I'm ready to leave, I'll go unplug, unless it's 3:30AM.

Many charging networks set onerous fees if you let the charger complete and don't unplug. Electrify America charges $0.40 per minute after a 10 minute grace period. That's $24 an hour. Of course, with our vehicles, once they hit 80% (hopefully soon 85 or 90%), the rate drops to a low 14kw, which will take another hour plus to hit 100%. In the states where EA charges by the kWh, you could let the car sit there and charge up. In states where they charge by the minute, $0.24 x 60 = $14.40 to go from 80 to close to 100% is pretty pricey.

IMO, which is worth a lot to me and worthless to anyone else, new EV owners should read the rules of every charging system they use, read every sign at the charging location, and then do some Googling to understand what good etiquette is.

 

[BigMach-E]

Wow, no idea that this would spark such a spirited debate.

 

[DevSecOps]

Wow, no idea that this would spark such a spirited debate.

It's all in good spirit tho!

For many of us that had EV's years back it was very rough. Since you're in the Bay Area I assume you know where the Vacaville Outlets are. A few years back it was like the only charger between Sac and the Bay. I can't tell you how many times I would go there and people would be plugged/full and shopping. Since there was only 2 chargers you would have to sit in your car and wait hours then hope that you got it before the other people waiting. It was a nightmare! That was before the idle fee was a thing.

So for me at least, the idle fee was a godsend!

 

[SnBGC]

Everywhere is also different. In California we have a 10% EV adoption which is far and above all other States. There's a number of times in my previous EV that I had to wait in line to charge. Also in NorCal, where I am, I checked plugshare and all the chargers appear to be outside the airport (SFO/SMF) so I'm sure if you left your car there not only would people be pissed, it would probably end up stolen.

Personally, what I think should be done at airports is level 1 plugs on retractable in ground outlets at every stall. The cost of doing that would be minimal and for multiple day vacations level 1 is more then enough. There would be no issue with leaving cars plugged in and ICE and EV could share everywhere. I would even say just put in a 120v outlet at every stall and make people use their own level 1... but then that would lead to theft of chargers.

Lastly @kltye my last EV locked the charger to the car so that you couldn't remove it unless you unlocked the car doors, I'm not sure how many EV's do that, but that would prevent the whole "note" thing from working.

Actually less expensive to install Level 2 units with circuit share vs run a 120v outlet to each space.

 

[SnBGC]

The ChargePoint CT4000 units have a button to check the rates. It usually displays the rate to charge, rate to park and idle fees if any.

Retailers are getting wise to people who live nearby and use inexpensive public charging as their main method. Public L2 is usually intended to top off BEV or fully charge PHEV.

 

[BigMach-E]

Yeah, I just got a level 2 charging solution set at my house, it's been raining, so I can't yet finalize it, but I won't be using public level 2 ever again anyway, so I guess it's a moot point.

 

[DevSecOps]

Actually less expensive to install Level 2 units with circuit share vs run a 120v outlet to each space.

I love a challenge. I was tasked with installing level 2's on our commercial property. Here's the cost of a CT4000 (this was in 2019):

1 – You Own the Charging Station:

1. you pay 280 / yr for cloud access
2. Purchase each station outright at about 5k per station
3. Optional warranty plans available for years 2+ at 500 / yr
4. All Install costs are on the property owner

2 – You lease the stations:

1. Term = 5 Yr
2. Cost $2400 per year, no other fees
3. Make ready on the electrical is the only expense for the install which is covered by Cal eVIP incentives

So if 2 parking spots need a single charger that's 12k (if rented) or 5.3k plus install (for owned) which comes to 6k per stall for leased or some number 4kish or higher for owned. Our install quotes were 3-5k per unit.

Cost of 120v outlet = $10
Labor and Misc Material = $300 (on the high end?)

I'm not sure my math is the same as yours. ?

But here's my point - Remember the conversation is specifically about a long term parking terminal:

• Level 2 is totally unnecessary for Long Term
• Why have specific stalls if you could have every stall? You would never be ICE'd or have to deal with "idlers" if every stall was capable of charging Level 1 or had an outlet to charge from.

By my math you could install outlets at 1000 stalls for 310k. That's the same as 25 x CT4000s.

If marketshare of EV's in California is 10%, that would mean that there would be 100 EVs in a full 1000 stall lot and only 50 would get charging using the CT4000s vs all of them having an outlet.

 

[rohankumar]

Everywhere is also different. In California we have a 10% EV adoption which is far and above all other States. There's a number of times in my previous EV that I had to wait in line to charge. Also in NorCal, where I am, I checked plugshare and all the chargers appear to be outside the airport (SFO/SMF) so I'm sure if you left your car there not only would people be pissed, it would probably end up stolen.

Personally, what I think should be done at airports is level 1 plugs on retractable in ground outlets at every stall. The cost of doing that would be minimal and for multiple day vacations level 1 is more then enough. There would be no issue with leaving cars plugged in and ICE and EV could share everywhere. I would even say just put in a 120v outlet at every stall and make people use their own level 1... but then that would lead to theft of chargers.

Lastly @kltye my last EV locked the charger to the car so that you couldn't remove it unless you unlocked the car doors, I'm not sure how many EV's do that, but that would prevent the whole "note" thing from working.

Incidentally I have seen several charging ports in the garage area as well the open daily parking lot at the SMF airport. The spots are usually always taken in the covered and open lots, but I've always wondered what the right etiquette should be. At that same it would be unreasonable for anyone to swing back and unplug when they are flying out.

 

[DevSecOps]

Incidentally I have seen several charging ports in the garage area as well the open daily parking lot at the SMF airport. The spots are usually always taken in the covered and open lots, but I've always wondered what the right etiquette should be. At that same it would be unreasonable for anyone to swing back and unplug when they are flying out.

Strange how plug share doesn't show them ?‍

And yeah you speak to my point. If someone actually needed a charger it would be a no go.

 

[SnBGC]

I love a challenge. I was tasked with installing level 2's on our commercial property. Here's the cost of a CT4000 (this was in 2019):

1 – You Own the Charging Station:

1. you pay 280 / yr for cloud access
2. Purchase each station outright at about 5k per station
3. Optional warranty plans available for years 2+ at 500 / yr
4. All Install costs are on the property owner

2 – You lease the stations:

1. Term = 5 Yr
2. Cost $2400 per year, no other fees
3. Make ready on the electrical is the only expense for the install which is covered by Cal eVIP incentives

So if 2 parking spots need a single charger that's 12k (if rented) or 5.3k plus install (for owned) which comes to 6k per stall for leased or some number 4kish or higher for owned. Our install quotes were 3-5k per unit.

Cost of 120v outlet = $10
Labor and Misc Material = $300 (on the high end?)

I'm not sure my math is the same as yours. ?

But here's my point - Remember the conversation is specifically about a long term parking terminal:

• Level 2 is totally unnecessary for Long Term
• Why have specific stalls if you could have every stall? You would never be ICE'd or have to deal with "idlers" if every stall was capable of charging Level 1 or had an outlet to charge from.

By my math you could install outlets at 1000 stalls for 310k. That's the same as 25 x CT4000s.

If marketshare of EV's in California is 10%, that would mean that there would be 100 EVs in a full 1000 stall lot and only 50 would get charging using the CT4000s vs all of them having an outlet.

Then factor in $5500 per plug incentive from utility company for non-profit status. That is $22k. A basic 120v outlet doesn't qualify.

 

[DevSecOps]

Then factor in $5500 per plug incentive from utility company for non-profit status. That is $22k. A basic 120v outlet doesn't qualify.

Our utility rebate only covered the make ready which brought power to the site. I mean if installing a charger was at no cost to any commercial property owner, how come we don't have them in every stall across America?

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