November 3rd 2021 Revised Tax incentives for EVs from House of Reps.

[Draconfier]

Just posted a few minutes ago on CNBC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/03/dem...tax-breaks-for-evs-that-cost-up-to-80000.html
The newly revised plan from the House of Representatives Ways and Means Committee RULES COMMITTEE PRINT 117–18 TEXT OF H.R. 5376, BUILD BACK BETTER ACT

$4000 base amount
$3500 amount for vehicles with greater than 40kwh battery capacity and less than 2.5 gallons gas tank
$4500 for final domestic assembly (vehicle made in US by Union representative workers)
$500 for domestic content assembly (battery produced in US)

Vehicle cost not to exceed $80,000 for Van's, SUVs, Pickup trucks. $55,000 for other vehicles.

Income thresholds of $500k married filing joint, $375k head of household, or $250k filing single.

Not more than 1 credit allowed per tax year.

Credit can be automatically assigned to the seller (must be registered) towards purchase of vehicle.

Date of effect: December 31, 2021 or when the Bill takes effect. (Whichever happens last)

Verbiage of credits for Used Evs also included in bill, 2 & 3 wheeled vehicles, charging station credits, commercial usage, etc.

The Proposed bill extends the EV credit system for another 10 years and eliminates the 200,000 vehicle restriction.

The full bill is available here. Pg 1480-1540

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-18.pdf

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[veronicablack]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

 

[Draconfier]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

According to the NHSTA its a compact crossover SUV

 

[CeramicShark]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

I was thinking the same thing.

Wonder if Ford ends up tweaking the price slightly to keep the most popular option just under the $55,000 to be able to us the credit as a selling feature. Trade a bit of margin to get the higher volume that the credit will bring them.

 

[Davedough]

End of December huh? Wonder if I’ll get my car by then. Does this supersede the $7500 tax rebate or is it in combination with?

 

[veronicablack]

According to the NHSTA its a compact crossover SUV

Good to know but also if you read the bill, it explicitly says "For purposes of this subsection, the Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as the Secretary determines necessary or appropriate for determining vehicle classifications using criteria similar to that employed by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of the Energy to deter mine size and class of vehicles.’’ (page 1484 here). So I'm inclined to believe the fueleconomy.gov classification has more weight here than most anything else.

To make matters worse, the Model Y (a car I would consider the direct competitor of the MME), is classed as an SUV.

This could really end up hurting Ford in favor of Tesla. Hey @Ford Motor Company you might want to get your lawyers lawyering on this.

 

[veronicablack]

End of December huh? Wonder if I’ll get my car by then. Does this supersede the $7500 tax rebate or is it in combination with?

I am not a lawyer but from my layperson reading, I would say yes it supersedes. the 4k base + the 3.5k amount for cars with batteries bigger than 40kwh is basically the 7.5k rebate just broken down into 2 parts.

 

[capnhowdy21]

Does it say anywhere if it’s mrsp or sales price?

 

[veronicablack]

Does it say anywhere if it’s mrsp or sales price?

MSRP. Bill is here. Starts on page 1480.

 

[BalsaDust]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

Yes it could be read that way if you take the EPA's stand on how they test vehicles but note that the IRS (the governing body that decides what you really get) still lists the Mach-E as getting the "up to" $7500 credit and they DO NOT classify what type of vehicle it is, all they need is the VIN number, and make and model.
Info available here scroll down to the Ford section, and while your there look up the actual tax form and see that there is no vehicle type listed.

Yes this is the current form and who knows what will eventually happen, but I trust what I see and know, not what may or may not happen in the future. Reading the revised proposal does not really change anything except the mixed dollar amounts that still match the Presidents original proposals.

Tony

 

[veronicablack]

Yes it could be read that way if you take the EPA's stand on how they test vehicles but note that the IRS (the governing body that decides what you really get) still lists the Mach-E as getting the "up to" $7500 credit and they DO NOT classify what type of vehicle it is, all they need is the VIN number, and make and model.
Info available here scroll down to the Ford section, and while your there look up the actual tax form and see that there is no vehicle type listed.

Yes this is the current form and who knows what will eventually happen, but I trust what I see and know, not what may or may not happen in the future. Reading the revised proposal does not really change anything except the mixed dollar amounts that still match the Presidents original proposals.

Tony

Oh 100%. Based on as the law stands NOW, the MME is definitely eligible. The problem comes if/when this bill is passed. My layperson reading of the bill says our odds are less than 100% in that case. Depends how they define the MME. If it's a car? People buying higher trims can be out of luck. If it's an SUV? We're in the clear.

 

[Draconfier]

End of December huh? Wonder if I’ll get my car by then. Does this supersede the $7500 tax rebate or is it in combination with?

The old rule still applies for $7500 unless:
A. You don't get yours prior to the later of either December 31, 2021 or the bill is approved and takes effect.

i.e.
A. You take possession prior to December 31, 2021 and the law passes both the House and the Senate prior to the end of this year, the old rules applies.

B. You take possession next year and the law takes effect...the new rules apply.

C. The law doesn't pass then its the old bill version of $7500 until Ford sells 200k units.

 

[NoVAguy]

They also added back 4 weeks of paid family leave into the revised bill, something that Sen. Manchin has repeatedly said he is against. So it's tough to gauge if this bill would pass the Senate as is.

Buckle up!

 

[kkgg]

Good to know but also if you read the bill, it explicitly says "For purposes of this subsection, the Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as the Secretary determines necessary or appropriate for determining vehicle classifications using criteria similar to that employed by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of the Energy to deter mine size and class of vehicles.’’ (page 1484 here). So I'm inclined to believe the fueleconomy.gov classification has more weight here than most anything else.

To make matters worse, the Model Y (a car I would consider the direct competitor of the MME), is classed as an SUV.

This could really end up hurting Ford in favor of Tesla. Hey @Ford Motor Company you might want to get your lawyers lawyering on this.

Is it a car, is it a SUV. Will I get full credit for $58,000 build. I am going bananas

 

[veronicablack]

Is it a car, is it a SUV. Will I get full credit for $58,000 build. I am going bananas

View attachment 43103

I feel the same way. And to rub salt in my wound, my car is pretty much built but is sitting there waiting on chips. I need this thing to ship ASAP and get to me before end of year.

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