Dangerous System Failure - locked up on highway!

benk016

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ben
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
37
Messages
3,020
Reaction score
4,685
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E GT
Country flag
The PCM update and it's sub modules will reset various driver functions. That's expected, but I also wouldn't put it past the dealer to factory reset everything in an attempt to start fresh. I think there's maybe 5 people on this forum that have fully up to date MMEs and based on your service report there were updates.

Question about locking up the brakes however. I've always had concern about the MME having a drive failure and 1 pedal causing the vehicle to stop on a freeway without being given sufficient time to get to a shoulder. In testing I discovered shifting into N in an event like this disables the regen and would give sufficient time to coast to a shoulder. So my question is do you think is was regen or brakes that slowed you?
It sounds more like whatever happened, the car went back to park, and engaged the mechanical lock in the motor.
Sponsored

 

Ford Motor Company

Well-Known Member
Official Ford Account
First Name
Ford
Joined
May 10, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3,026
Location
Dearborn, MI
Vehicles
Mach-E
Country flag
Hi Shawn! Could you please send us a PM with your VIN and mileage so I can look into the issues you're experiencing with your Mach E on my end?
Last week my Mach E suffered a complete system failure, locking the brakes at 70 mph and coming to a complete stop on the main freeway in Boston. A whole series of error codes came up on the driver display, the car locked itself in park and the gear knob wouldn't turn. It didn't respond to turning the car on and off and the touch screen was unresponsive. The car had to be transported off the middle of the highway to my nearest dealer. Eventually, the gear knob unlocked and the car would drive in forward and reverse but there were still major faults which could not be resolved from the car's controls. I was very lucky that I wasn't being tailgated so no accident occurred but it could have been very dangerous.

The error codes included "Service AdvanceTrac", "SHIFT SYSTEM FAULT - Service Required", "Pre-Collision Assist not available".

The dealer had it for three days, claimed to have updated 6 software modules (I'm certain the car was up to date on all software updates), test drove it and discovered 2 needed further updating. After that and 100 miles of test driving they released the car to me. All seemed OK but, this morning, all of our personal settings had been erased.

Here is the dealer's service report. I don't know what any of this means and I'm not convinced the dealer's technician really does either.

The main screen still displays this error symbol but I can't find it in the owner's manual. Does anyone know what it means?

Mach E Svce Report, Nov 21.jpg


Mach E Error Symbol.jpg
 

DevSecOps

Well-Known Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
69
Messages
4,741
Reaction score
11,509
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicles
'21 Audi SQ5 / '23 Rivian R1T / '23 M3P
Occupation
CISO
Country flag
It sounds more like whatever happened, the car went back to park, and engaged the mechanical lock in the motor.
Yeah it's not quite clear. Not saying I trust the service ticket but it describes something a bit different. Sometimes we get a little hyperbolic when tragic things happen. Since that specific issue has always been on my mind with the MME I wanted some clarification. The OP could be 100% correct, i just hope he's not because that is quite scary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARK

skeighle

Active Member
First Name
Seth
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
40
Reaction score
25
Location
Vermont
Vehicles
Mach e select awd
Country flag
I also wonder if the OP experienced forward collision emergency braking on error and hasn't previously experienced that. It will sometimes falsely trigger on semi truck shadows.

That was my thread and many of us performed the update without issue. This was also just released on Saturday and the OP wouldn't have had that update installed. We have no documentation on what the GSM update does at this point.
Very good point about auto brake I find it too sensitive. Backing up a slight incline is a nightmare.

Thanks for clarification on the GSM update ?
 

Mach-Lee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lee
Joined
Jul 16, 2021
Threads
210
Messages
7,973
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Wisconsin
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium AWD
Occupation
Sci/Eng
Country flag
Holy **** 77 codes, I think you broke the record!

Ford, this is a bad one. Heavy braking should never be triggered by a fail safe mode, nor should park pawl engagement, it should coast only. Have your engineers test the failsafe behaviors again carefully. Maybe fix the poor English in some of the error messages too while you’re at it.
 


OP
OP

Pitts2112

Member
First Name
Shawn
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
22
Reaction score
22
Location
Boston, MA, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mach E SR, RWD
Country flag
No idea, thought it was quite intuitive. Maybe he didn't see it appear.

For those that don't know....

Touch the picture of the car and it will take you to settings. When it does this the car changes orientation a bit and the x shows up. Then you push the logo of the car with the x to go back to main Home Screen. It is quite obvious I think if you are watching the animation to get there.

My guess is the OP was focused on other things and just saw the X at some point and wasn't sure why it was there. Coming off the major problems he had I can understand that. For a normal user who sits down and then pushes the button to get to settings they should see the animation and it should make sense.
Well, yes and no. Now that you put in that context, it's just a "close window" icon, which does make sense. The first time I ever noticed it was when I was frantically paging through screens in the middle of the incident, so, in that context, it looked more like a fault icon. Having seen nothing explaining it, that's the assumption I was still running with.

As you pointed out, the car icon changing was clear enough to indicate changing pages, so I'm not sure what the "x" adds but now it's been explained, I get it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARK

Kabish

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jul 24, 2021
Threads
37
Messages
899
Reaction score
956
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E Mustang
Occupation
IT
Country flag
That is how you can get multiple people killed....

Interesting tidbit, pretty sure there was a post on here about a Tesla that did the exact same thing and everyone was roasting Tesla.. Whelp....... lol
 
OP
OP

Pitts2112

Member
First Name
Shawn
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
22
Reaction score
22
Location
Boston, MA, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mach E SR, RWD
Country flag
Question about locking up the brakes however. I've always had concern about the MME having a drive failure and 1 pedal causing the vehicle to stop on a freeway without being given sufficient time to get to a shoulder. In testing I discovered shifting into N in an event like this disables the regen and would give sufficient time to coast to a shoulder. So my question is do you think is was regen or brakes that slowed you?
Hell if I know. It all happened so damned fast I'm not sure what actually occurred. I was a bit preoccupied with not getting smashed from behind and figuring out how I was going to get out of that situation. It's an interesting question, though, as to what the fail-safe mode is.
 

DevSecOps

Well-Known Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
69
Messages
4,741
Reaction score
11,509
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicles
'21 Audi SQ5 / '23 Rivian R1T / '23 M3P
Occupation
CISO
Country flag
Hell if I know. It all happened so damned fast I'm not sure what actually occurred. I was a bit preoccupied with not getting smashed from behind and figuring out how I was going to get out of that situation. It's an interesting question, though, as to what the fail-safe mode is.
I understand and I'm sure I would be in full panic mode as well. I just went round and round with other members here over this exact situation about 3 weeks ago in another thread and what would happen with 1 Pedal on if there was catastrophic failure on a freeway. My guess was that in a 6 lane freeway like we have here, being in the fast lane with regen would not give you time to get to the shoulder safely. So I've kept in my little memory bank that if something like that ever happens to switch into N as soon as possible.

Thanks for trying to remember ;)
 

Whatstreet

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
348
Reaction score
207
Location
Fremont, CA
Vehicles
Chevrolet Volt, Ford Expedition
Occupation
Electronics Engineer
Country flag
What happens if park is selected with the knob while driving at highway speed limit. Will it engage? Would it prompt a series of fault conditions? Just wondering...
 

skeighle

Active Member
First Name
Seth
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
40
Reaction score
25
Location
Vermont
Vehicles
Mach e select awd
Country flag
Hell if I know. It all happened so damned fast I'm not sure what actually occurred. I was a bit preoccupied with not getting smashed from behind and figuring out how I was going to get out of that situation. It's an interesting question, though, as to what the fail-safe mode is.
Of course, regardless of cause locking up on the highway is clearly a serious car error and needs to be resolved asap
 
OP
OP

Pitts2112

Member
First Name
Shawn
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
22
Reaction score
22
Location
Boston, MA, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mach E SR, RWD
Country flag
What happens if park is selected with the knob while driving at highway speed limit. Will it engage? Would it prompt a series of fault conditions? Just wondering...
One would hope there is an interlock preventing that from happening, backed up with a fail-safe control response, but I don't actually know (and I hope to never find out)
 

Whatstreet

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
348
Reaction score
207
Location
Fremont, CA
Vehicles
Chevrolet Volt, Ford Expedition
Occupation
Electronics Engineer
Country flag
One would hope there is an interlock preventing that from happening, backed up with a fail-safe control response, but I don't actually know (and I hope to never find out)
I read on another thread that some people have had issues with something called a shift module. That could be what is happening here.

I hope that it is impossible to engage park when the vehicle is moving. I don't know why anyone would need to do that and it has a lot of series consequences.
 
OP
OP

Pitts2112

Member
First Name
Shawn
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
22
Reaction score
22
Location
Boston, MA, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mach E SR, RWD
Country flag
I had the same question but I presume since the OP said the brakes locked up then the wheels suddenly stopped turning and the vehicle went into a full skid to a stop. Very lucky the OP was able to maintain control of a 4 wheel skid at freeway speeds.

If that happened to me, I would make the dealer replace all 4 tires since they will have a major flat spot.
I may have described it - it wasn't a skid but a hard brake to a stop. But the wheels and gear knob did completely lock up at some point. The rear wheels dragged when the transport driver tried to pull it up the truck ramp.
Sponsored

 
 




Top