Filling a gas-powered vehicle can still be cheaper than charging an electric one

[EVS]

OMG! I’m traumatized by your peak summer rates! That’s just crazy. How much is your electric bill every month? I’m on a standard rate and it’s about 4 times lower than your highest and your lowest is still double mine! I’d be switching back to fire and candles, but then I’d probably burn the state down on accident!

Yes, it is going up crazily and everyone is complaining! Few years ago $0.11/KWh was the base rate for everyone. But there are still other non-ev rate plans with not such crazy high peak rates. See this I posted earlier.

I do have solar, but it's not enough to cover the pool pump, car and now a room heater for a silly little cat. Luckily SF bay area has mild weather so rarely need to run the AC. I average ~$150/month; not too bad.

This is a complicated mess inolving the NEM plans, the Cali govt blaming PG&E for forest fires, and CPUC mandating many renewable/battery storage projects for PG&E. Guess what. The consumers are now paying thru their noses for all these.

With the previous TOU E-6 plan I had for years (which PGE is wisely retiring), the peak periods were different and I was happily selling solar electricity to PG&E at higher rates while charging my car at lower rates. Now it's payback time for me.

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[ChuckA]

If you define the cost to operate as gasoline vs. electricity then the EV is probably cheaper, but if you include maintence cost for the ICE and the cost difference for the EV it may not be cheaper.

That’s not the point. Many EV owners got them for environment reasons. It’s also more convenient to fill-up in the garage. I didn’t think it would cost less when gas was $2.85.

My backup vehicle is a ‘17 Accord Hybrid that gets 38 mpg winter, 49 mpg summer, 660 mile range. Until the charging infrastructure in New England improves, I can’t take the MME on long trips.

 

[ChuckA]

It just goes to show how much education the world still needs on it. Yes, DCFC is the closest thing to a gas station, but also horrible for your battery long term if it’s what you rely on for primary charging. I’ve DCFC’d once in my 3 months of ownership, but it was out of curiosity, not need.

If you have the 250 or 500 kWh Ford EA charging bundle, you should be using it.

 

[jbooth]

Plus a person that is buying a mach e, probably isn't buying a car that gets 33 mpg. There aren't that many that actually get that.

Hi!

Okay technically the 2009 Fit is 31 mpg combined -- but close enough.

 

[Kabish]

It cost me $7.04 to charge from 0% to 100%... This summer, unless something REALLY changes, SoCal will be easily into $7.00 for 1 gallon. Hell half the time when they switch to our summer blend the gas goes up $1.00 all on its own. I think we will end up being well into $6.50 before we even switch blends let alone having the summer demand... Its going to SUCK this summer.

Ya, I'll keep my EV, thanks... lol

 

[Illinibird]

Hybrid…….

It’s just another example of how electric cars aren’t the solution for everything.

They’re amazing for daily driving near home.

But if you’re talking road trips, long distances, especially in the cold, they’re actually at a disadvantage.

Making everyone go all electric causes issues. I really think a PHeV is a better solution for most.

I agree that a plug-in hybrid makes the most sense if you want the best of both worlds. Electric around home for 40 + mile range and hybrid for the longer trips where you don't have to worry about stopping to charge and can fill up and get 40+ MPG on the highway with the hybrid engine. Toyota makes a RAV4 Prime that is both electric and a hybrid. One of my friends has one and loves it. She lives in Mississippi and public chargers down where she lives are rare (Madison MS). She inquired about my Mustang Mach E first as that is what she originally wanted but changed her mind after thinking about her situation and wondered how she would charge it down there on a trip. I told her the electrical infrastructure is growing everyday with new chargers being added but they aren't there yet in a lot of areas. And right now battery technology with the range they achieve, efficiency in cold weather and the time it takes to charge them puts totally electric cars at a disadvantage if you buy them and take longer trips IMHO. Around home you can't beat them. I own a 2016 Titanium Ford Fusion Hybrid and tried to get the plug-in version when I bought it but they were not available at my car dealer even with dealer trading. They told me then that demand for that car was low (in 2016) and not many people wanted or owned one.

 

[mkhuffman]

Thanks for the tip! I have an EV for ~8 years, but I never signed up for the EV rate plan (have other usages during the day).
Now I had to call PGE as I couldn't do it online thru my account. The PG&E solar & EV helpline is 1-877-743-4112, if anyone needs.

But get ready for a shock. The EV2-A 12 a.m.-3 p.m. rate is now 24 c/kWh, not 18c as you said. Used to be like 12c/kWh couple of years ago. I guess the electric infrastructure upgrades, the expensive Tesla batteries and inflation are taking a big toll on electricity prices in CA for everyone.
EV2-A also makes the peak 4-9 p.m. rate at 43c and 3-4pm+9p.m.-12 a.m. at 41c. Obviously I need to use elctricity during those times when I will have no solar. So this may actually be a wash compared to the non-EV rate plans.

I read the article. I hate to admit it, but the article is quite right. Once more people have large batteries to charge at off-peak, there will be no off-peak rate. This is before EVs pay any of the road taxes and other taxes that gasoline price includes .
There are also apartment dwellers and renters with no charging at home for whom it will be much worse. That doesn't mean some folks won't save big driving electric cars. But YMMV!

This is a huge, huge problem. Do you really think these astronomically high rates are going to be as high as they go? Don't you think they will keep going up?

And as the government regulations causing PG&E to charge these crazy rates ripple across the country, do the rest of us really think we will keep our reasonable electricity rates? I am very pessimistic about this. Current government policies are driving up electricity costs, not lowering them.

And what about the extra tax EV owners have to pay every year because the government is not getting our gas tax money? In VA it is small, but in some states isn't it around $800 per year? I think I remember seeing someone post about that in this forum. It really pisses me off that governments are making policy to get us to buy EVs, and then turning around to charge us an extra tax because we bought into it.

Don't get me wrong, I love my car. And for now it is cheaper for me to drive because the EV tax in VA is not huge and my home electricity rates are reasonable. I am not optimistic that it will last.

And I also see more and more EVs at DCFC stations. The ability to charge on the road is going to get practically impossible very soon. I predict within the next two years we will hit the tipping point when I never will even consider taking my car beyond the home charging distance.

We will not be buying another EV to replace my wife's ICE car, that is for sure.

 

[MachMachWhoThere]

If you have the 250 or 500 kWh Ford EA charging bundle, you should be using it.

I got 250 kWh. I should say that my trying it was more than just curiosity. It was also a test run to make sure it worked right, so it will be there when I need it. For now, I’d rather save it in case I do a road trip, but I was happy to see that it automatically recognized my car and deducted from my balance.

 

[mkhuffman]

There is a free level-2 ChargePoint charger in a downtown area where I have my business located, and I charge up for free currently at a University where I also work.

That free charging at work sure does stink. That $0.007/mi is brutal.

Guys, I am wondering - do you leave your cars parked in those charging spaces even after your car is fully charged? I hope not. But I would like to know how you handle that.

At my work location, there is also free charging but every single day I see cars parked there that are fully charged. I unplugged a Tesla once because his car was fully charged, and when he got back to his car he unplugged me because he was mad that I unplugged him. But he was fully charged and I was not! Are you guys like the Tesla driver?

For sure charger etiquette is going to become a much bigger deal as more and more people depend on destination chargers. I depend on that charger at work because it is 140 miles from my house. I cannot get home without a charge at work or on the road. I bet most people are just using it because it is free. At least that is how it appears when you see a car sitting there all day that is fully charged.

 

[TGIF]

Yes. And a trip to New Orleans can cost more than a trip to Paris. It depends on how you do it. To the extent that a news piece wants to point out for whom BEVs work or don’t work, fine. This article came off as a hit piece on BEVs, though.

 

[dml105]

For sure charger etiquette is going to become a much bigger deal as more and more people depend on destination chargers.

Charging etiquette is also currently borne out of charging realities: a scarce resource (charging stations) that all EV users in a particular area must share. Charging etiquette will change if the availability of that resource changes. And there’s no reason to believe it will remain scarce with burgeoning acceptance of the EV.

Guys, I am wondering - do you leave your cars parked in those charging spaces even after your car is fully charged? I hope not. But I would like to know how you handle that.

What do you think of the ChargePoint stalls at airports? DCA has installed them now, so people plug in and literally fly away from their cars. Obviously, they won’t be unplugging them until they are back.

 

[dml105]

Yes. And a trip to New Orleans can cost more than a trip to Paris. It depends on how you do it. To the extent that a news piece wants to point out for whom BEVs work or don’t work, fine. This article came off as a hit piece on BEVs, though.

Right? It compared flying to NoLa in a private jet to flying to Paris in a cargo plane.

But the article served its publishers’ purpose: it got lots of clicks.

 

[KevinS]

If all public chargers continue to charge the person who’s plugged in but finished charging the car, I’m OK with it.

 

[ChargedCheese]

My only suggestion is we should never think of as something provided for free as being "free" entirely. Someone is paying for it. There is a cost, for sure. The free to consumer may discontinue in the future, actually, so likely can't count on that to continue in perpetuity. It could be seen as a perk by employers/employees, but should be included as it is a cost.

I view it as an employment benefit (much like health insurance, 401k, etc). Just like a 401k, you are welcome to not use it, but I would call that a financially unwise decision. That being said, I think it is very reasonable to expect the free aspect of the chargers to go away at some point. Then the question becomes, "Which is cheaper, the company charger rate or the electric company night rate (currently $0.07)." In any case, I'm already wired with a 14-50 outlet. A change in my company benefit package would just result in my buying a charger at home - no big deal really.

Guys, I am wondering - do you leave your cars parked in those charging spaces even after your car is fully charged? I hope not. But I would like to know how you handle that.

At my work location, there is also free charging but every single day I see cars parked there that are fully charged. I unplugged a Tesla once because his car was fully charged, and when he got back to his car he unplugged me because he was mad that I unplugged him. But he was fully charged and I was not! Are you guys like the Tesla driver?

That's not a great situation. Our chargers (5 dual chargers) are lined up in a way that it is impossible to unplug someone else and physically reach your vehicle. We do deal with full chargers regularly, but I think it is handled pretty well. A) Our facility security polices the chargers and tickets cars who are idling. B) Many of the users know my cell number and ask me to send them a txt when I'm done charging so we can swap out spots. We all like talking about our cars, so we get to know each other pretty quick ?

 

[ChuckA]

I got 250 kWh. I should say that my trying it was more than just curiosity. It was also a test run to make sure it worked right, so it will be there when I need it. For now, I’d rather save it in case I do a road trip, but I was happy to see that it automatically recognized my car and deducted from my balance.

It’s wise to do a test run. My 1st fast charge was at EVGO and I didn’t know how to use the FordPass BlueOval to activate. I needed to install the EVGO app to proceed otherwise. Nothing worse then discovering a problem during a road trip.

Originally my wife set herself up with her own FordPass account and found she couldn’t select a charge station to activate. At least there’s always a credit card.

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