Filling a gas-powered vehicle can still be cheaper than charging an electric one

[TGIF]

I would argue that for most BEV would be the best solution once we have a better DC Fast charging network.
Yes on long distance road trips the PHEV would be cheaper but you have to still pay to maintain the ICE engine. Compare that to say a range of something like the Mach E. That range covers most day trip range, it will put a lot of weekend trips in range and even if you have one DC fast chargers in there the BEV is going to come out cheaper because the other part is covered by home charging. My mach E I am going to take it on a longer road trip this summer for the first time that my wife's ICE might work out to be cheaper but the Mach E is a nicer car and it still will work out to be cheaper than the alternative car we we were looking at that we did not get. In my book the Mach E is competing against the Honda Pilot/ Passport as that would be what we would have if not for the Mach E.

the issue I see is far to many people for the 1-2% use case for them and sacrifice the other 98%. He’ll just look at all the 4wd pick up trucks that might in their entire life of the truck need 4wd once. I am not even going to go down the truck with massive towing that never tow or use the bed for hauling

I agree. There seems to be an American mindset to plan for the outlier trip. It doesn’t make economic or environmental sense to have a pickup with poor gas mileage for the two times a year you have to haul mulch home. How often do you see a pickup with ANYTHING in the bed?

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[Scooby24]

I agree. There seems to be an American mindset to plan for the outlier trip. It doesn’t make economic or environmental sense to have a pickup with poor gas mileage for the two times a year you have to haul mulch home. How often do you see a pickup with ANYTHING in the bed?

Bingo. 80/20 rule.

Need a truck? Go rent one at home depot. Need a long road trip one time a year? Go get a rental.
The net cost is lower than buying for the 20% and having excess for the other 80% at a premium.

Getting a rental for a longer road trip is also a very, very smart idea due to the risk involved. Get in an accident 800 miles from home? Boy...are you now going to have to deal with some shit.

 

[dml105]

When I talk to people about owning an electric car the thing they are most surprised about is the 80% charge limit. This is also the thing that actually makes an electric car worse for long trips because after your initial 100% charge you realistically don't do it again for the remainder of your trip. This makes my 270 mile range GT a 200 mile car in the best of conditions.

I'd think about it slightly differently: it makes your 270 mile range a 470 mile range with one charge en route instead of 540.

Now, I get it: from Sacramento, that will get you to LA with one stop, but not to San Diego.

 

[TGIF]

Bingo. 80/20 rule.

Need a truck? Go rent one at home depot. Need a long road trip one time a year? Go get a rental.
The net cost is lower than buying for the 20% and having excess for the other 80% at a premium.

Getting a rental for a longer road trip is also a very, very smart idea due to the risk involved. Get in an accident 800 miles from home? Boy...are you now going to have to deal with some shit.

Yes. Obviously, there is something else motivating people than economics—cars as status symbols, enjoying a particular driving experience, etc. OK, but then don’t complain when the price of gas goes up. The world doesn’t owe you cheap gas. if you thought gas prices were always going to remain the same, you have a very bad memory.

 

[ripperAZ]

Since the news reported it must be true.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/filling-gas-vehicle-cheaper-electric

Anyone want to buy my First Edition RR MME?

I just can't stand charging anymore, such a waste of my time and money.

You can't make this stuff up, but they hide the small print which maybe lets them print this stuff.

"Fast Charging Stations High Rates"

PS - Nice picture of a MME as the example in the article.

Even though the story is a Fox News creation to combat electric vehicles it is true that the Mavericks hybrid Will be a huge success I’m considering buying one right now

 

[blazinazn]

They have not taken into account that most EV owners charge in their garages or at their homes for low rates. Some charge for free. This last point is what attracts many new users that already have solar energy systems installed.

Still the most common misunderstanding out there. I was also under the impression that fast charging was vital to being able to use an EV until I started researching EVs. It would be nice if some mainstream sources did decent stories or articles on explanation of EV use cases.

 

[nvabill]

Since the news reported it must be true.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/filling-gas-vehicle-cheaper-electric

Anyone want to buy my First Edition RR MME?

I just can't stand charging anymore, such a waste of my time and money.

You can't make this stuff up, but they hide the small print which maybe lets them print this stuff.

"Fast Charging Stations High Rates"

PS - Nice picture of a MME as the example in the article.

I just read the article and am confused, is part of it not factual, they said home charging is cheap but fast chargers can be quite expensive? I don't have my Mach E yet but a friend who owns a Tesla took a road trip and found exactly what the article says, he found charging at 2 locations much more than filling the tank of an ICE vehicle would be.

 

[Cm12]

That's a big part of the education that this article skirts. People who have used ICE cars all their lives think only in terms of ICE car use. They've never thought "man, wouldn't it be great if I had a gas station at my house" unless they live on a farm. Like, they can't even fathom it.

Now that I'm one year into owning an EV, I can't imagine having to stop at a gas station before setting out on a long drive. The way to get the most out of an EV is different than the way to get the most out of an ICE car. This article (stupidly) only considers a direct substitution.

So true. Oregon requires that an attendant pump your gas so it can take like 15 minutes or more to fill up during busy times. Sometimes the lines are too long at the cheap stations to even get gas so you might have to come back later.

I could see an issue for people who live in places with extremely high energy costs who don’t have solar. I didn’t realize until recently that the New England area pays between $0.23-$0.30+ per kWh and California can cost even more. While gas prices are indeed high, it appears that some people are basically paying DCFC rates. But unless you’re driving a Rolls-Royce, no ICE cars are as smooth to drive as a Mach E (or most other EV’s, I assume). It sucks driving my wife’s ICE - a very nice and smooth vehicle, for an ICE - compared to the Mach E.

 

[BayouEV]

That’s an extremely charitable view. The article was published by a network that routinely spouts anti-EV rhetoric (or really, if Biden is for it, then they will be against it). There’s no need to get into a political debate here, but just consider the source.

And someone without much knowledge of EVs would read this article and have no clue that for the vast majority of users (like close to 100%), EVs are dramatically cheaper to operate than ICE cars.

I agree with your statement that it is a charitable view (I try to apply such a view in most circumstances) and that, in most cases, Evs are cheaper to operate. But I have seen many articles with a pollyanna view of EVs and these seem to go unchallenged. I just try and dispassionately evaluate others' positions, try and understand the points of view and decide what is best for me without getting too defensive.

I try and always consider the source. Especially in the world of partisan media in which we live (on both sides). I just can't get too worked up if CNN, Fox News, or anyone else publishes a slanted story. It happens every day and we need to be equipped to sift through and get to the facts.

 

[cvk71]

I'd think about it slightly differently: it makes your 270 mile range a 470 mile range with one charge en route instead of 540.

Now, I get it: from Sacramento, that will get you to LA with one stop, but not to San Diego.

If I could get 270 in the first place then maybe. I have now done the LA trip twice and I have to charge 5 times to make it there and back and that's with a 100% charge when I leave the house. If I take our MKZ hybrid it's two stops and if we take my wife's SUV it 3 stops. MKZ and Mach E are a wash dollar wise at $5 plus a gallon for gas right now. SUV is twice as much $$. FYI I do this trip a lot to watch my son play baseball for his college.

 

[RyZt]

PGE rates are 25c-44c, more like 30c-33c minimum

PGE rates is 18c from midnight to 3pm if you sign up for EV2A. No separate meter required.

 

[jhalkias]

The maintenance schedule for our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV insists on a synthetic oil change every 6 months! I assumed they just failed to update the manual for a PHEV, but when I talked the service department at the dealer they insisted that it was necessary (even though I only run the engine 15% of the time max).

I think that is dealer service department BS. Especially with synthetic oil. I would be looking for an Outlander PHEV forum somewhere to see what others are doing.

On my previous car, my Ford Escape, I would only change the oil when it called for it. Since 90% of my driving is Highway, it would be about every 10,000 miles. The guy at the lube place I went to told me I was going to ruin my engine. I told him I think the Ford engineers probably know more about the car then him. My daughter drives the car now. It has 180,000 miles on it.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I did my own total cost of ownership estimates when we were considering an EV vs a PHEV. I can't make the PHEV Escape cost less than the Mustang Select unless I reduce the Escape's yearly maintenance costs to almost nothing, increase electricity costs to at least $0.43/kWh, and reduce gasoline costs to $4.00/gallon or less. If I keep realistic, but high, costs for the EV compared with the gasoline vehicle, the break-even point for two similar class vehicles (one EV, one PHEV) is about 3-6 years, more heavily leaning toward 3 years.

The thing these hit pieces usually do is conveniently leave out real costs like maintenance, resale value, realistic price changes (my electricity cost doesn't change from day-to-day, for example). As gas costs rise, so do the costs of oil changes, etc.

Just like when I got my first Prius, people have been coming at me with all sorts of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) about the costs based on what they heard from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from some fake "news" source. I'll continue to not have to worry about the falsehoods.

 

[WheresMyCar]

I think that is dealer service department BS. Especially with synthetic oil. I would be looking for an Outlander PHEV forum somewhere to see what others are doing.

It says every 6 months in the service manual so I can't put it all on the service department. I was shocked because my previous all-gas vehicle was every year or 7500 miles with standard oil. I will be switching to once-a-year when it is out of warranty (although I hope to have sold it by then to take delivery of my Mach-E ).

 

[EVS]

PGE rates is 18c from midnight to 3pm if you sign up for EV2A. No separate meter required.

Thanks for the tip! I have an EV for ~8 years, but I never signed up for the EV rate plan (have other usages during the day).
Now I had to call PGE as I couldn't do it online thru my account. The PG&E solar & EV helpline is 1-877-743-4112, if anyone needs.

But get ready for a shock. The EV2-A 12 a.m.-3 p.m. rate is now 24 c/kWh, not 18c as you said. Used to be like 12c/kWh couple of years ago. I guess the electric infrastructure upgrades, the expensive Tesla batteries and inflation are taking a big toll on electricity prices in CA for everyone.
EV2-A also makes the peak 4-9 p.m. rate at 43c and 3-4pm+9p.m.-12 a.m. at 41c. Obviously I need to use elctricity during those times when I will have no solar. So this may actually be a wash compared to the non-EV rate plans.

I read the article. I hate to admit it, but the article is quite right. Once more people have large batteries to charge at off-peak, there will be no off-peak rate. This is before EVs pay any of the road taxes and other taxes that gasoline price includes .
There are also apartment dwellers and renters with no charging at home for whom it will be much worse. That doesn't mean some folks won't save big driving electric cars. But YMMV!

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