Better peak charging rate or charging curve possible?

[Blue highway]

What is the difference that would cause Ford to specify that the charging speed on the Select model is 115kW but the Premium is 150kW? Different physical hardware or is it also a software limitation?

The issue is SR vs ER batteries, not car model. SR battery is limited to 115KW (75KWh X 1.5C) The ER battery is limited to ~150KW

A Premium with a SR battery is limited to 115KW peak.

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[Mathington]

The issue is SR vs ER batteries, not car model. SR battery is limited to 115KW (75KWh X 1.5C) The ER battery is limited to ~150KW

A Premium with a SR battery is limited to 115KW peak.

So this is what the crux of the issue is then. Until Ford wants to raise the C rate per hour, it's not going to happen. Given some of the recalls happening for the Mach-E already, I doubt Ford would want to risk more warranty or recall claims for the most expensive part of the car.

 

[Blue highway]

So this is what the crux of the issue is then. Until Ford wants to raise the C rate per hour, it's not going to happen. Given some of the recalls happening for the Mach-E already, I doubt Ford would want to risk more warranty or recall claims for the most expensive part of the car.

Yeah that's the issue. "traditionally" Lithium batteries are not charged above 1C. So Ford and others are leaning forward a bit to charge at 1.5C to stay competitive. There are real engineering limits to speeding things up much. They may raise the charge curve a little but it will still be capped by the cooling capacity of the car. It may go a little faster if everything (temp, charge state, charger, battery degradation) are all in goldilocks zone but it isn't going to change a lot for this generation car.

For me real world DCFC charge stops are 30 mins or less. Cutting this to 15 mins is not going to happen.

I see a lot of posts that are just Magical Thinking in terms of speeding up the charge rates significantly.

 

[AZBill]

if it's limited to 350A then this would explain why I was only seeing 119kW max given the lower pack voltage. I will be going to the same charger this weekend so I will record the details of the charging session using CarScanner.

Are the 350kW ABB units also limited to 350A?

Some of those have been at that limit, at least recently, I had one in Tucson that only gave me 123kw peak back in March. I have seen 160kw on the Signet units, and even on a Signet 150kw charger it goes right up to 150kw for me. The ABB 350kw units are marked as supporting 450A. Supposedly, EA has been fixing them. I am taking a trip this weekend and will be using some ABB units, so I will get some data.

 

[AZBill]

Many cars are now charging way above 1C when they are at low SoC, i.e. below 50%. But most of them drop down to 1C or less at about 50-60%. These batteries have to taper as they get close to full, over shooting the voltage will damage the battery and can lead to a fire. Yes, Teslas have a very high peak, but they taper very early (~30%), as do the Taycan and the Lucid.

There are two cars that I know of that are exceptions to this:

Chevy Spark will charge at 2.5C out to 80-90%
Audi E-Tron will charge at 2C to 80%

FYI, the Chevy Sparks are notorious for battery degradation. When GM came out with the Bolt, they kept it below 1C, lesson learned.

 

[AZBill]

As a follow up, I charged at a 350kw ABB charger in El Centro, CA today and got a peak of 153kw, so those chargers are definitely not limited to 350A. To get that rate the Mach E has to be pulling well over 400A. Temperature was 95-100F.

 

[ZuleMME]

Audi E-Tron will charge at 2C to 80%

Hilariously this is why Kyle from out of spec said to never buy a used one. And then bought a used one 1.5 years later.

 

[voxel]

Hilariously this is why Kyle from out of spec said to never buy a used one. And then bought a used one 1.5 years later.

Technically wasn't it his gf/wife who bought it?

Not to stereotype (ok this is one) but the e-tron owners I've met at EA chargers have been overwhelmingly women. Real estate + exec + management types that prefer their luxury and creature comforts. A few asked about my ID.4 in the past - which was pretty basic with cloth seats.

 

[JimmyMachE]

In Bjorn's video the initial jolt in Mach-E GT charging curve reached 148 kW (430 amps). This was kW delivered to battery, charger screen probably showed over 154 kW (6 kW went to HvbCHP - HVB Coolant Heater Power):

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