Senate Bill Deal to Expand EV Tax Credits (7/27/2022)

[dbsb3233]

I, along with many others would have not purchased an EV without the tax credit.

Just because people get duped into thinking it's actually a better price that way than it would have been without any taxpayers subsidizing $7500 of any car purchases doesn't make it right.

It's like those stores that are perpetually running that "Going out of business, everything 30% off" sale. For 10 straight years.

Marking base prices up to sucker shoppers in with a sale is a long-proven sales technique that works on consumers' psyche.

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[generaltso]

or 175K for head of household. I will barely get it.

I think Head of Household limit is actually $225k.

 

[Avelli]

Here is a clip:

Federal tax credits for electric and hydrogen-fueled vehicles will be set at $7,500 for new vehicles and $4,000 for used ones, with new income limits for buyers.

Brace yourself: $4000 Dealer ADM on used EVs incoming...

 

[voxel]

Brace yourself: $4000 Dealer ADM on used EVs incoming...

With used EV price caps at $25K and incomes capped at $75K(?) the rule is solely for cheapo Bolts/Leafs.

This bill most definitely is trying to force carmakers to build EVs in the US and source their batteries in US + US free trade countries. I don't hate it but think it could be tweaked a little or start a year later so carmakers have time to ramp up.

 

[yngwenli]

Now, all this bill will result in is Tesla raising prices more and making more profit with little to no drop in prices for the consumer.

I agree with you and if people are willing to buy a MY for $63k+ or more if they raise prices even more now due to the tax credit and people are still lining up to buy it, then so be it because clearly, the demand is still there.

Why I've been stating here since I've joined I'd leave the EV tax credit stuff alone other than maybe removing that required $7500 tax due requirement and something for used EVs instead.

For me, a Tesla has never been attractive due to a lot of reasons (it's $20k+ more than my MME, no 360, no Android Auto, hate no front screen, hate all the tech, I don't care about updates really...I just need to go from A to B) and I'm not a fan of Elon as well.

 

[yngwenli]

But we're fine going into Best Buy and buying a TV without them. Or a furniture store for bedroom set, etc. When they finally stop being the norm, we no longer would feel screwed vs what others are paying so it's ok then.

I'm actually not. I look up historical prices of nearly everything I buy on slickdeals, etc...Call me poor/cheap, etc. I am not well off enough to not spend the time to research practically everything I buy that's a fairly substantial amount.

I suppose at the end of the day, it boils down to the individual. There are never ADM people here, etc.

 

[bshaw]

Brace yourself: $4000 Dealer ADM on used EVs incoming...

Yea, this really cuts the private party sale options when you want to sell your used EV. Basically moves $4k of value to the used car dealers' pockets.

The effort to turn an EV on a dealer lot must be ridiculously simple. They check the battery reported health, and top off the washer fluid? I doubt they'd even run FDRS updates unless absolutely necessary. Oh, but they'll for sure reset the GOM to the most optimistic value possible.

 

[yngwenli]

Just because people get duped into thinking it's actually a better price that way than it would have been without any taxpayers subsidizing $7500 of any car purchases doesn't make it right.

It's like those stores that are perpetually running that "Going out of business, everything 30% off" sale. For 10 straight years.

Marking base prices up to sucker shoppers in with a sale is a long-proven sales technique that works on consumers' psyche.

This is why you still have to look at the price after everything is said and done and "most" smart shoppers do.

There is no assumption that Ford will magically lower the price by $7.5k once the old tax credit expires. If Ford marked the MME up to $60k or $70k now, they would certainly sell less I feel and that's sorta obvious.

 

[yngwenli]

Brace yourself: $4000 Dealer ADM on used EVs incoming...

I think it's more likely that if a dealer can sell a used EV for $30k, they won't care there's the $25k limit for the credit. I assume most used Tesla's of all trims are over $25k.

People will just have to decide if the Base Select MME is worth $30k when a used Bolt is now $18k, etc.

Used EVs does help less wealthy people so I'm more inclined to help those folks, but restricting it to dealer networks only is probably a miss.

 

[dbsb3233]

Brace yourself: $4000 Dealer ADM on used EVs incoming...

Yep. Give or take. Except they won't have to call this one ADM, since there's no MSRP for used cars and they can simply set the displayed price that way.

The used car credit in this thing is especially crazy. (And that's separate from the whole issue of buying a used aging EV where the chances of the battery being nearly shot are a serious concern. There was a recent news story with someone doing just that.)

 

[yngwenli]

With used EV price caps at $25K and incomes capped at $75K(?) the rule is solely for cheapo Bolts/Leafs.

I agree. May get a used Bolt/Leaf for the kids when it's time.

 

[dbsb3233]

This is why you still have to look at the price after everything is said and done and "most" smart shoppers do.

There is no assumption that Ford will magically lower the price by $7.5k once the old tax credit expires. If Ford marked the MME up to $60k or $70k now, they would certainly sell less I feel and that's sorta obvious.

Oh sure, they have to more subtle about it than that, for PR purposes. The old "frog in the pot" tale. But eventually it will normalize when all the tax credits end within the paradigm.

 

[ARK]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30234650/tesla-price-increase/

Please show me your evidence? The article above proves my point.

MSRP and rebates are two different animals. Both drive car sales but I am not finding your assertion that Tesla cut their prices?

Tesla Slashes Prices by $2,000 in Lieu of Max EV Tax Credit

“Tesla sold its 200,000th vehicle in 2018, which means the federal government is starting to phase out its EV tax credits. To soften the blow for customers, Tesla is dropping prices on its vehicles by $2,000.”

GM Continues Large 'Cash On The Hood' Incentive Of $8,500 On Bolt EV

“To make matters worse, in 2019 GM reached the 200,000 EVs-sold mark and the federal tax credit that GM customers got for leasing or purchasing an EV has ended. Losing the federal tax credit really hurt Bolt EV sales, and in order to keep the Bolt EV competitive, GM has been offering "cash on the hood", factory to dealer incentives to make the Bolt more attractive.

The amount of the incentive has fluctuated month to month, and currently, at least through the end of May, GM is offering $8,500 off a cash purchase of any 2020 Bolt EV. If the customer wants to finance the vehicle, they will get 0% financing for 72 months with a $4,700 cash allowance.”

 

[DennisD]

It’s also “crack dealer 101,” give people a taste and they come back.

Most Mach E buyers are first time EV people. And according to the threads here, not many going back to ICE.

But the startup costs and “nudge” has been done.

No need to keep giving crack away for free for the next decade. We are hooked. ?

Not sure if I would have used the "Crack Dealer" example, but once again you are helping prove my point.

The Crack Dealer needs to sell their product much cheaper to get people "hooked". Once they are hooked, the price goes up. Now in your "Crack" example, the dealer gets the money and not the consumer. Not apples to apples (or coke to coke) but you get the point.

The Crack Dealer now needs new customers. The Crack Dealer CONTINUES to give incentives to get more and more people on board.

The Dealership is not getting the incentive but rather the customer. Everyday, there are new customers looking at purchasing cars and they usually tend to gravitate to what they feel makes the most sense.

Until we get to a number that is sustainable with EV's, we are likely to see the incentives given.

Just like the Crack Dealer. ?

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